Unitarian-Universalism

[hartlandcat]

Does this religion read the bible at all?

Yes and no, depending on what you mean by this. I, along with many other Unitarians, read the Bible, and the Bible is read in many (possibly most, but not all) congregations. However, we don't believe that the Bible is inherently more important or accurate than other religious texts. We don't believe that the Bible is necessarily the Word of God. It might contain the Word of God, or it might not. We don't believe that the whole thing should be interpreted literally.

Who do you worship?Who do you serve?

Some of us worship something which they call God. Some are theists, some are agnostics and some are even atheists, but I suspect most are sort of pantheists (like myself) or panetheists (and that's NOT the same as having a "pantheon of deities"). But I can't see into the mind of every Unitarian-Universalist, so I don't know.
With regards to whom we serve, I'd say that we serve humanity.

It's not just my opinion.It comes from the word of God. If you have trouble with that you have trouble with God. It's his commandments.It's his word. He spoke it.I only repeated it.

That's what you believe. However, about 2/3 of the world would disagree with you completely, and about 5/6 (or maybe more) of the world would disagree with you to a certain extent. Not to say that truth is discovered by a majority vote, but it is important to realise people of other religions believe, just as sincerely as you, that their beliefs are true and that yours are to a certain extent wrong. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the Word of God. Hindus believe that the Vedas and the Bhagavad-Gita are the Word of God. Sikhs believe that the Guru Granth Sahib is the Word of God.

What I've noticed about many Conservative and Fundamentalist Christians is that they seem to have difficulty in understanding why others cannot accept what they say to be true. Can you accept what a Hindu says with regards to their religion to be true? No. What you're saying is no different. The attitude that I've inferred from your posts is that you're saying "I'm right because I say I'm right and, because I say I'm right, everyone else should also agree that I'm right".

Nothing personal just saying what the word says. Or would you prefer I tell you a lie?

You are more than welcome to state your beliefs, and why you believe in them. In the same way that I allow you to disagree with my beliefs, I also have the right to respectively disagree with yours.

 

[firefromheaven]

What I've noticed about many Conservative and Fundamentalist Christians is that they seem to have difficulty in understanding why others cannot accept what they say to be true. Can you accept what a Hindu says with regards to their religion to be true? No. What you're saying is no different. The attitude that I've inferred from your posts is that you're saying "I'm right because I say I'm right and, because I say I'm right, everyone else should also agree that I'm right".


You are more than welcome to state your beliefs, and why you believe in them. In the same way that I allow you to disagree with my beliefs, I also have the right to respectively disagree with yours.

I'm not saying that I'm right.I'm saying what the bible says.That's all.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

See there? Jesus said he is the way,not me.

I understand why people of other religions cannot accept what is in the bible.It' s called disception. Yea I know you will say that that's my opinion. There again I'm only going on what the bible says.It says that it's disception.They have believed a lie,just like people in the bible have believed lies. For instance: Adam and Eve. They were beguiled by the devil.The devil is behind all disception.In order to keep from being disceived you need to study the bible and be obedient to what it says in it and pray and ask God what it means.
Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

It's God that gives the interpetation of the bible. It's his word not mine.

I don't mind you stating your beliefs at all.I'm trying to help you and others to understand the bible as much as I can.If you don't want to listen that's up to you,God is a gentleman and won't force it on you and neither will I.If you don't want to hear anymore then I will talk to someone else.

 

[firefromheaven]

Yeah...the opinion part is where you say the Bible is the word of any deity. I don't think it is, and I don't think there's any good evidence that it is. That is your opinion. I don't share it.

Have you asked God to prove to you that he exists? I used not to believe either.I asked him to prove to me that he did by praying.Praying is just talking to him like he is there. If he is there he will answer you in his own time and in a way that you will understand that it's him.

[/QUOTE]No, I have trouble with people who claim things for God which aren't true, like IMO the Bible. I find much of what's credited to God in the Bible to be blasphemy. I know the Gods I know would never order children murdered, for example. I know that petty humans do, though, and I know petty humans wrote the words of the Bible down, so no. I have problems with humans who claim to speak for God, not God her/himself.[/QUOTE] God is God and can do whatever he wants. That's called Sovereignty.The things you are having problems with are in the old testament about God telling Joshua to kill people in a city. They were evil in God's eyes. God is the only one that can judge right. He knows everything about everybody.He knows what you and everyone has done in secret and out in the open. He knows your true actions. God is Holy. He must punish sin because he is Holy.Look at it this way. Even though this is a poor example of God's righteousness and Holiness. The judges on this earth that judge between right and wrong give sentences for punishment for crimes that men have established. If they didn't punish crimes you would have kaos and rampant injustice.In like manner God does the same thing but far more righteously and merciful.God knows what really takes place between people and nations and judges according to his charachter and integrity and laws that he created to protect you and everyone else on this planet.

[/QUOTE]Again, your opinion, not objective fact.



Uhm...in my opinion, you are saying things that aren't true. You're claiming the Bible is the words of a deity, which I think is utterly untrue.[/QUOTE] Have you read the bible to find out and test to see if they are untrue? Check out the book of Proverbs, the book of Ecclesiastes just for a few easy ones to read. I also recommend a bible like the New International Version because it's in modern day language and don't have the thee's and thou's and the creepeth and crawleth in it. Don't go by what others tell you are what your read against the bible. Check it out for yourself.Don't even go by what I say. Check it out for yourself and see if I'm telling you the truth. It's important for everyone to check and see if what a person is telling you is the truth or not.

 

[hartlandcat]

I'm trying to help you and others to understand the bible as much as I can.

Nothing that you have said on this thread was new to me. It's not what you're talking about that myself and others have a problem with. It's your attitude. If Evangelical Christians remembered to use the two words of "I believe" once in a while, I'm sure that they would get a lot further than they do at the moment.

 

[Fuzzy]

I understand why people of other religions cannot accept what is in the bible.It' s called disception.

It's called Free Will. It's called being raised in another fashion. It's called
study. It's called knowledge. It's called self identitification.

For instance: Adam and Eve. They were beguiled by the devil.The devil is behind all disception.

Genesis 3
The serpent told them that the tree wouldn't kill them, that they'd know the
difference between good and evil. And God punished them and the serpent
(which He'd made), stating that Man would be able to kill the Serpent's
children. That doesn't sound very much like the Great Adversary to me.
But, maybe I'm not reading the right EXTRA-Biblical books that interpret
the serpent as Satan. All Eve and Adam did was get told a rule, misinterpret
itm get corrected by the serpent, and get smacked on the knuckles by
God.

I'm trying to help you and others to understand the bible as much as I can.

There might be a possibility others understand it more than you.

 

[firefromheaven]

There's a way that seems right to a man but only brings him death. That's what the bible says to you. What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world yet looses his own soul?A fool has said in his heart there is no God.Pro 14:16 A wise [man] feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.Pro 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.

The devil was and still is the serpent.I call him a worm but this is what the bible calls him who you serve.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

You see there in that verse it says that he decieves the whole world. He's decieving you too.

 

[firefromheaven]

If Evangelical Christians remembered to use the two words of "I believe" once in a while, I'm sure that they would get a lot further than they do at the moment.

I believe everything that I wrote in my posts. I believe what the bible says. All of it. You just don't understand enough of it to know you are decieved. You are decieving yourself and probably others.You are also taking what you want and what you don't understand you are rejecting. You are also taking only what you want to hear and using it to discourage others. This makes you an Anti Christ according to the bible.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I know why you don't like my attitude. It's because you don't agree with what I'm saying.

Mat 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,


Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for

his son,

Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding:

and they would not come.


Mat 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden,

Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and [my] fatlings [are] killed, and all things

[are] ready: come unto the marriage.


Mat 22:5 But they made light of [it], and went their ways, one to his farm, another

to his merchandise:


Mat 22:6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew

[them].


Mat 22:7 But when the king heard [thereof], he was wroth: and he sent forth his

armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.


Mat 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were

bidden were not worthy.


Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the

marriage.


Mat 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as

many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.


Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had

not on a wedding garment:


Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a

wedding garment? And he was speechless.


Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him

away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

 

[Fuzzy]

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:15-16
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Hmm....The earth in your bible has been anthopomorphized and is helping the
woman who gave birth to the man-child. Hmm. Is that Biblical justification
for a very powerful, possibly divine Earth being, ala Gaia? Or is it St. Brigid,
Mary of the Gael, midwife of Christ, daughter of the innkeeper that gave
Mary and Joseph space in the manger? And, oh yeah, pre-Christian Celtic
Deity?

You see there in that verse it says that he decieves the whole world. He's decieving you too.

He's deceiving a lot more than just me, IF he is. And he was made by your God.

 

[firefromheaven]

You're very funny. Do you really believe the things you say? No need to answer. I'm through talking to you for now. You need prayer and not talking to.

Deu 28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:

Pro 26:2 As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come.

When you get saved all the curses that God puts on you he will remove. That's what God warns you of. He's trying to help you not to continue to be cursed. He wants you to be saved and live with him forever and not die or go into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels.Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth and the worm dieth not.In outer darkness.

 

[Fuzzy]

You're very funny. Do you really believe the things you say?

Yes, I do. That would be why I said them. They're my point of view, my
opinions, my thoughts.

No need to answer. I'm through talking to you for now. You need prayer and not talking to.

Thank you for your concern.

When you get saved all the curses that God puts on you he will remove. ...He's trying to help you not to continue to be cursed.

Do you see the contradiction there? God loves me by removing the
curses he put there in the first place?

And to go back to an earlier statement:

A fool has said in his heart there is no God.

I'm not saying there is no God. You have yours, and I have mine.
Oh, wait, forgot you're not talking to me any more.

Buh-bye.

 

[firefromheaven]

I'm letting you know that I'm praying for all of you people.

Rae
ShadowAspect
hartlandcat
Silverfare
Gwynne

That God has mercy on you. That he forgives you of all of your sins. That he opens your eyes to see the truth of God. That you come to understand him and all things about him. That you no longer believe the misconceptions you have of him.That he gives you the faith to believe. That he reveals all that the Lord Jesus Christ did for you and the whole world by his dying for you on the cross. That you come to believe that he rose from the dead and that he is alive and all power is in his hands.That you are in health even as your soul prospers in the knowledge of him when you come to accept Jesus as your Lord and savior.That you truly believe and become a child of God,the Most High God. The King of kings and the Lord of lords.In Jesus name Amem

 

[Zen_Woof]

As a Unitarian myself, I was wondering what people here (Christians and non-Christians) thought about Unitarianism (or Unitarian-Universalism, as it's called in North America and in some other places).

Please don't worry about offending me, I won't be offended. Just give your opinions and/or arguments, but please don't be offended if I attempt to counter them.

Greetings.

I like going to UU services. They are very community oriented and intellectual. My dear hubby doesn't like the services too much because there isn't enough Christianity for him in it, although he likes in theory the intent of the group.

When I think of a UU, I think intellectual, open, and philosophical.

With metta,
ZW

 

[Rae]

Have you asked God to prove to you that he exists?

I'm not an atheist, hon. I'm a Pagan theist. I believe in more Gods than you do.

God is God and can do whatever he wants.

No. That's called tyranny. Those who behave however they want, who murder children and babies, are called sociopaths when they're human beings. Personally, I think those who "do whatever they want" by killing others are sociopaths, whether we say it's Joe from down the street or Deity X from X religion. If a being doesn't act morally, it isn't a moral being, despite efforts like yours to excuse its immoral behavior. Killing babies is never okay, whether it's a God or a human doing it. Never.

God is the only one that can judge right.

No, we can. We must! Otherwise we'd look at tragedies like female genital mutilation and let people continue hurting each other. We'd see religions promoting racial hatred and take no action. Are you really saying we can't judge right from wrong enough to say whether killing a baby is right or wrong? I don't think so. I think I can judge right from wrong enough to say if your God-concept killed babies, that was wrong. The Gods would never kill babies, so the humans who said a God did were also wrong. They made up that part of their God. It isn't true and it never was.

Have you read the bible to find out and test to see if they are untrue?

Yeah, just like most of the non-Christians on here. I was a born-again Christian for 13 years. I was a member of Campus Crusade. I know the Bible and the rhetoric and lies conservative Christians use to excuse their God's immoral behavior. It doesn't work, any more than it does for spouse abusers. Killing babies is always wrong, and I think you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to excuse such immoral conduct.

Check it out for yourself and see if I'm telling you the truth.

I have. You're not telling me the truth. Simple as that.

I'm letting you know that I'm praying for all of you people.

I'm letting you know that with this, I'm adding you to my ignore list. May you someday realize that people do think differently from you for good reasons. Goodbye.

 

[firefromheaven]

That might make you a reprobate! I hope not

 

[hartlandcat]

I believe everything that I wrote in my posts.

And I believe everything in my posts.

You just don't understand enough of it to know you are decieved. You are decieving yourself and probably others.You are also taking what you want and what you don't understand you are rejecting. You are also taking only what you want to hear and using it to discourage others. This makes you an Anti Christ according to the bible.

Thank you for pushing me even more away from Christianity than I am already with that paragraph. Honestly, you don't really think that telling people that they are an Antichrist and that they are ignorant will convert them, do you?

 

[firefromheaven]

If that is what they are that is what I tell them.Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Mat 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:Not only that he did this too:Jhn 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

 

[Zen_Woof]

What is it about quoting Bible verse that's supposed to be so persuasive? For goodness sake firefromheaven, as others have told me, God does not want robots. Post what YOU think ... please.

With metta,
ZW

 

[Ataradrac]

I was raised (from about the age of 13 or so) as a UU. My family continues to attend the church and are very involved in it. My husband and I were married in my church (in Ohio) as well. Then, we moved to Canada. (Or rather, I moved to Canada - my husband has lived here all along. ) The church here is different from the one I knew in the States, although whether that's an organizational difference or just a congregational difference I don't know. We go for their Solstice service, but otherwise haven't made an effort to join this congregation.

In the intervening years, I've found that there are things about UUism that I like, and things that irritate me. The inclusiveness is one of those things that does both. I like that someone can come in and say that they ascribe to Buddhist beliefs, and their beliefs are accepted and they are welcomed. At the same time, you can have someone come in saying that they believe God is aliens, and that God's angels (UFOs) have abducted him several times, which makes him a prophet... And he's welcomed as well, with only a few people asking odd looks about. (No joke. Happened.) There needs to be some kind of - what? Accountibility? Credibility? I don't know.

I was also irritated when we found that the UUA had changed the Christmas carols in the hymnals to more "politically correct" versions. I mean, come on. You don't mess with Christmas carols! Then, there has been a recent movement in the UUA towards theism, to the point where atheism is being denigrated by the top names in the UUA. The older I get, the more I lean towards atheism, and these latest moves by the UUA have just rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway.

I still identify myself as a UU, since I have some humanist leanings in me, but my UU identity is mostly cosmetic and something to write down on a census form under "religion." "Humanistic, Atheist-Leaning Agnostic Buddhist with Pagan Sympathies" usually doesn't fit... And as you can see, CF doesn't have a cute icon for that.