Unhappy Truth or Happy Lie...

[stan1980]

Your argument is sound, but it comes down to personal preference. I happen to dislike being made a fool.

Someone is going to think you are a fool no matter which you believe, so may as well go for the happy option.

 

[stan1980]

Look at it another way.

Your best friend says that he has a great wife, but you know that she has told your wife that she only married him for the money. She has has multiple affairs, and isn't sure if one of the kids is his.

Do you think you should let him be fooled, and happy in the lie?
Would you want your friend to never tell you that he knew your wife had cheated on you, because believing a lie is better?

Working under the premise, that the truth will make you unhappy, then it is better not to know. Clearly in real life things aren't that straight forward, as you point out later in your post, you might start to have suspicions or feel neglected which would probably make you unhappy anyway, but if we could guarantee that a lie will make a person happy, then I can't see what good could come of finding out your child isn't your own or if your wife is having an affair.

As a Buddhist, the idea of believing a lie, living in the "Matrix", isn't something that I want. I want to know the truth, and be happy about what is true. I don't want false friendships, false relationships, false awards, or anything that is false.
I have had them in the past, and when you find out that none of it is true, it really shakes you and fills you with mistrust, but it also makes you happy to know the truth, rather than to appear ignorant and pathetic to everyone else who knows what is really going on.

It's a long time since I watched the matrix, so my memory of the film is a bit shaky. But lets say you are in the matrix, right now. You are enjoying what you perceive to be life, you are happy, and lets say you find out the 'truth', that your life isn't real and it leads you to deep depression, suicidal if you will, would you be glad to have found out the truth, even though your quality of life will have suffered considerably?

 

[stan1980]

But, just for the sake of argument, isn't the appeal of happiness just as much of an axiom as the appeal of truth? Surely I could say that happiness usually comes from truth, but when it doesn't I can't see what appeal happiness has.

Not sure if I agree with that. I think we strive for truth to gain happiness but truth doesn't necessarily make you happy, it just gives you truth. Just like happiness doesn't mean truth, but it does mean happiness

 

[stan1980]

I have heard people say "I have the best spouse in the world."

You must have been speaking to my wife.

 

[quatona]

You must have been speaking to my wife.

Ah, now I understand where you are coming from.

 

[The Nihilist]

Someone is going to think you are a fool no matter which you believe, so may as well go for the happy option.

Again, your argument is sound, but I dislike thinking myself a fool

 

[sidhe]

Depends on which is more harmful.

If I can live a happy lie without enduring or causing harm, that's fine. If an unhappy truth would cause less harm, that's good too.

Though, honestly, the whole thing makes me think of a John Collier story where a rural doctor is putting in a cement floor in his basement to stop the groundwater from leaking in. Two of his friends come by to ask him to go fishing, and - as the doctor's wife isn't there - think that he's killed her and buried her under the concrete. The doctor denies it, but they say they can't blame him. They proceed to tell him how his wife was the town's hobby horse, and how guilty they'd felt about not saying anything to him (my favorite line in literature..."I promise, Doc, I never had her. Well, not after you married her, at least."). Anyway, they leave, promising not to say anything.

Then the doctor's wife comes back. She'd missed her train and asks if she'll run him to the station...and he asks her to come down to the basement for a minute...

...just a totally random aside. But he was quite content in his happy lie.

 

[stan1980]

Again, your argument is sound, but I dislike thinking myself a fool

Yeah, but you wouldn't think yourself a fool, as far as you are concerned the lie is a truth to you. For instance, noticing your atheist label, you might think Christians are fools on some level, but I doubt they would think themselves as fools.

 

[Beanieboy]

Working under the premise, that the truth will make you unhappy, then it is better not to know. Clearly in real life things aren't that straight forward, as you point out later in your post, you might start to have suspicions or feel neglected which would probably make you unhappy anyway, but if we could guarantee that a lie will make a person happy, then I can't see what good could come of finding out your child isn't your own or if your wife is having an affair.



It's a long time since I watched the matrix, so my memory of the film is a bit shaky. But lets say you are in the matrix, right now. You are enjoying what you perceive to be life, you are happy, and lets say you find out the 'truth', that your life isn't real and it leads you to deep depression, suicidal if you will, would you be glad to have found out the truth, even though your quality of life will have suffered considerably?

Yes, I would.
I don't argue that people wouldn't be. Syler wanted to go back into the Matrix, and forget anything that ever happened.

As I said, I'm not content knowing of even the possibility of false friendships, relationships, reality, etc.

I once had a bf when I was younger who cheated on me once or twice. I did as well. We cried about it, but didn't like lying to each other. Did it hurt? Yeah, a lot. Was I glad he told me? Very much so. Had I never known, I would felt fooled, and foolish. Had I found out from a 3rd person, I would feel betrayed. If I never found out, I suppose that I would be living happily, but would never be sure.

Strangely, I trusted him more than anyone I had ever dated before or since, simply because he was so honest, and I knew that should anything happen, he would be honest about it.

With others, they would claim they never cheated, leaving a trail of doubt in their wake, sometimes being caught in their lies, and would say, "I didn't want to tell you because I didn't want to hurt you." I don't want to ever be in that position, happy, and oblivious.

Buddha lived a very comfortable life, and was ignorant of the suffering of the world. However, he left everything to find truth and meaning, and found happiness in the truth, even while acknowledging suffering, because he was no longer ignorant, but aware of what life truly was, and what cause the suffering. He was able to help others through his understanding and awareness.

I would most certainly choose the red pill.

 

[stan1980]

Yes, I would.
I don't argue that people wouldn't be. Syler wanted to go back into the Matrix, and forget anything that ever happened.

As I said, I'm not content knowing of even the possibility of false friendships, relationships, reality, etc.

I once had a bf when I was younger who cheated on me once or twice. I did as well. We cried about it, but didn't like lying to each other. Did it hurt? Yeah, a lot. Was I glad he told me? Very much so. Had I never known, I would felt fooled, and foolish. Had I found out from a 3rd person, I would feel betrayed. If I never found out, I suppose that I would be living happily, but would never be sure.

Strangely, I trusted him more than anyone I had ever dated before or since, simply because he was so honest, and I knew that should anything happen, he would be honest about it.

With others, they would claim they never cheated, leaving a trail of doubt in their wake, sometimes being caught in their lies, and would say, "I didn't want to tell you because I didn't want to hurt you." I don't want to ever be in that position, happy, and oblivious.

Buddha lived a very comfortable life, and was ignorant of the suffering of the world. However, he left everything to find truth and meaning, and found happiness in the truth, even while acknowledging suffering, because he was no longer ignorant, but aware of what life truly was, and what cause the suffering. He was able to help others through his understanding and awareness.

I would most certainly choose the red pill.

This is the thing, I can understand not wanting false friendships/relationships, as they ultimately wont make you happy, but I can quite happily live with a false reality, if the alternative is misery. I can't really understand why anyone would choose unhappy over happy. To me, happiness is more important than truth, that's not to say I don't go searching for truth, but if someone told me right now that I could have all the knowledge in the world but it will be 100% certain that I'll be miserable as a result, I'd refuse it.

 

[craigerNY]

For every pint of ale you pass me you may tell me a fantastically uplifting lie.......just keep those beers coming.

 

[TeddyKGB]

Syler wanted to go back into the Matrix, and forget anything that ever happened.

Cypher. Syler is the evil brain-gazing dude on Heroes.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Happy lies and me do not work together well. A vastly prefer unhappy truth's any day.