Unforgivable sin?

[starelda]

I've heard people refer to the following verses as talking about the unforgivable sin. Could someone clarify what these verses are talking about...is it truly unforgivable?

Matthew 12:31-32
And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[Adstar]

The bible must be read in context to find out who comitted this sin and what this sin is.


Mark 3

22And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, "He has Beelzebub," and, "By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons."
23So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: "How can Satan cast out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. 27No one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house. 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"-- 30because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."

What did the scribes do? They said that the Holy Spirit that was with Jesus was "Beelzebub" They accused the Holy Spirit of being a demon, (like calling God satan) that act is the sin of blasphemy of the Spirit. verse 30 refers to "they" they where the scribes in verse 22.

So if one pronounces that another person has a demon and that person actually is indwelled by the Holy Spirit then one has just accused the Holy Spirit of being a demon and has committed the sin that "never has forgiveness" and they are "subject to eternal condemnation".


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Reformationist]

I've heard people refer to the following verses as talking about the unforgivable sin. Could someone clarify what these verses are talking about...is it truly unforgivable?

Matthew 12:31-32
And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

That passage refers to a person's willful expression of intent to subvert the works of God by claiming they are actually works of evil. There is a key element here that I believe is missed in the previous post and that is that subversive intent must be present. The action is based on one's knowledge that the act to which they attribute evil is truly the work of God.

Thankfully, God has protected His people from committing this sin.

God bless

 

[BelindaP]

The primary reason that the unforgiveable sin is unforgiveable is that the person who commits it loses any desire to find God. The Holy Spirit is what guides us to belief in Jesus, and without it we can't do it. I would say to most people who are afraid that they might have done it not to fear. If they are worried about it, then they haven't committed it.

 

[psychoceramic]

One of my favorite pastors to listen to does a talk show every afternoon on the CSN radio network. Pastor mike get this question about the unpardonable sin at least once a month if not more... and he has answered as those who have already posted in this thread have... but one thing that he is always saying.... is this.....


If a person doesnt want to live for God and enjoy and love doing the things of God and following the Holy spirit here on Earth, then why would they want to do such a thing for all eternity?

 

[Alcamo]

I have to respectfully but sincerely disagree with Adstar's post, but regardless of what the sin actually is, the main point, (which BelindaP already mentioned briefly) is this: The Bible makes it clear that we can only desire God by God putting that desire in us. The Holy Spirit changes our hearts over time to have a hunger for God. Those who have sinned this sin would not have any concern or desire for God because he would not be putting that desire in them. They would be completely out of touch with and indifferent to him.

Having said this, remember Jesus' words about knowing a tree by its fruit and that out of the heart the mouth speaks. It was not what they actually said that was the issue, it was the condition of the heart out of which those words were spoken. Having a heart so hardened against God as to reject a clear and plain miracle by the Spirit is to call God a liar (blasphemy), because the Spirit was testifying of Jesus' true identity and they were attributing the act to satan instead. Refusing to respond to the Spirit is unforgivable, because there is no other means of coming to Christ. It is ultimately the sin of rejecting him.

Is there room for disagreement on this question? Some, yes, but remember again: those who have and desire for God are not guilty of it. As a side note, Jesus did not even say anyone was actually guilty of this sin. His words could just as well have been words of warning about where they were headed if they didn't turn around. Lastly, this is not a one-time act. It is a condition of the heart that progressively worsens to a point of no return. When we steadily push away every prompting of God in our lives and no longer respond to the Spirit, we have no hope of forgiveness because it is only through those promptings that we can turn to him.

 

[Reformationist]

Refusing to respond to the Spirit is unforgivable, because there is no other means of coming to Christ. It is ultimately the sin of rejecting him.

For the benefit of the OP, I simply add the perspective that the above claim is not at all biblically accurate. ALL Christians have committed the sin of refusing to respond to the Spirit because that is what we do every time we sin. Additionally, many Christians have initially refused to submit to what they later came to recognize as the truth. If the point being made is that final rejection is what is being referenced then the point is, in fact, that it differs in substance from initial rejection, a sin which so many of us are guilty of. There is no qualitative or quantitative difference between initial rejection and final rejection save for the element of death.

There are numerous examples in Scripture of converts who initally rejected God. The Apostle Paul is a pointed example of how God, according to His own plan, changes the hearts of man to bring His purpose to pass. Paul had not only rejected Christ but had, further, persecuted the Church. God still used the man in a mighty way, to gather His elect.

When we steadily push away every prompting of God in our lives and no longer respond to the Spirit, we have no hope of forgiveness because it is only through those promptings that we can turn to him.

And again, for the OP, God is not the "prompter of reconciliation." He is the one who has established it and who, even now, applies it in accordance with His plan to gather His flock. God does not simply invite us with a wooing Spirit. He changes the hearts of man and gives them faith. That will always bring to pass reconciliation.

God bless

 

[Alcamo]

Reformationist,

I didn't mean refusing to respond to the Spirit once or twice or a thousand times during life, but ultimately and finally; that is, dying without having received Christ. I thought that was clear but perhaps not.

I find some of your statements less that respectful. As a brother in Christ, no matter your position, I just ask you to please make your thoughts known in a tactful way.

Thanks!

 

[Key]

The sin, in it's purest form, is "Calling that which from God to be from the Devil, or to be Evil"

This can be done in many ways. For example, blasphemy is not where one says "I think your religion is wrong" or even to say "There is no God"

It comes from saying "Your God is Evil" or the People that follow God are really following the Devil (Evil).

It is the focus on the action, to say "I have seen Christan's and they are the most evil people in the world" is not Blasphemy, That very well could be truth. But to say "You do what you do as a Christian because your source is Evil" that means, your are calling God himself, his guidance, is a source of Evil. But, the only part is, if they are really doing what they are doing for self serving reasons, then there is no blasphemy. If they are doing what they are doing out of service to God and his directives alone, then that is blasphemy, because they are doing what the Holy Spirit directs.

You can insult the man (Person) all you want, to say "You are Evil" is irrelevant, it is when you focus on the source that becomes the issue.

For example: You see a person the street, holding a sign that says "Adoption is an Option, please prevent abortion", and you say "That person does what they do because of self serving greed and ego (Sources of Evil, or Satan), when in truth, their motives come purely from God.

Now you can say "That man is a Jerk" that man is a imposing jacka--, or what ever you wish to say about the man, you could even say, that man is wrong, misguided, that God does not want us to do that, etc. None of that is Blasphemy.

But when you say "You do what you do because of Satan in you" when they do what they do because of the "Holy Spirit in them" then that is Blasphmey.

God does not take kindly, to call the things that he has provided, and given to us, to be from Satan. That is true Blasphemy.

That is how I have always understood it, that is what Jesus was talking about. To say "What God has provided to be from Satan"

Calling that which is from God to be from Satan.

I hope I have provided you an answer to this question.

God Bless

Key

 

[jesusxchick]

As many others have stated, the Unforgivable Sin is proclaiming that the works of the Holy Spirit are works of demons or the devil.

If you look in Mark and read chapter 3 verses 22-30 you'll see how this sin was committed.

God Bless

 

[Reformationist]

Reformationist,

I didn't mean refusing to respond to the Spirit once or twice or a thousand times during life, but ultimately and finally; that is, dying without having received Christ. I thought that was clear but perhaps not.

Are you referring to the sin of unbelief? As to your explanation, I already addressed the fact that dying after having rejected Christ isn't quantitatively different than rejecting him prior to believing. Either Christ died for it or not. The problem is, it seems that your post stems from the idea that our faith is, somehow, a meritorious ground for salvation. It isn't. We aren't saved because we receive Christ. We receive Christ because God has given us faith and by that faith, conforms us to the image of Christ.

I find some of your statements less that respectful. As a brother in Christ, no matter your position, I just ask you to please make your thoughts known in a tactful way.

My whole post appears to me to be tactful. I'm sorry if anything I said came across as disrespectful. On the contrary, it's my respect for you as a brother that prompts me to correct what I feel is error in your post. If there are any statements of mine that you feel are uncharitable, feel free to PM me and I'll reevaluate their tone.

God bless

 

[gratis]

The sin, in it's purest form, is "Calling that which from God to be from the Devil, or to be Evil"

This can be done in many ways. For example, blasphemy is not where one says "I think your religion is wrong" or even to say "There is no God"

It comes from saying "Your God is Evil" or the People that follow God are really following the Devil (Evil).

It is the focus on the action, to say "I have seen Christan's and they are the most evil people in the world" is not Blasphemy, That very well could be truth. But to say "You do what you do as a Christian because your source is Evil" that means, your are calling God himself, his guidance, is a source of Evil. But, the only part is, if they are really doing what they are doing for self serving reasons, then there is no blasphemy. If they are doing what they are doing out of service to God and his directives alone, then that is blasphemy, because they are doing what the Holy Spirit directs.

You can insult the man (Person) all you want, to say "You are Evil" is irrelevant, it is when you focus on the source that becomes the issue.

For example: You see a person the street, holding a sign that says "Adoption is an Option, please prevent abortion", and you say "That person does what they do because of self serving greed and ego (Sources of Evil, or Satan), when in truth, their motives come purely from God.

Now you can say "That man is a Jerk" that man is a imposing jacka--, or what ever you wish to say about the man, you could even say, that man is wrong, misguided, that God does not want us to do that, etc. None of that is Blasphemy.

But when you say "You do what you do because of Satan in you" when they do what they do because of the "Holy Spirit in them" then that is Blasphmey.

God does not take kindly, to call the things that he has provided, and given to us, to be from Satan. That is true Blasphemy.

That is how I have always understood it, that is what Jesus was talking about. To say "What God has provided to be from Satan"

Calling that which is from God to be from Satan.

I hope I have provided you an answer to this question.

God Bless

Key

Just wondering - can this person still have an epiphany later and accept Christ, and be forgiven?
Because all things are still possible with God right?
Look at Paul's transformation!

Just wondering...

 

[Key]

Just wondering - can this person still have an epiphany later and accept Christ, and be forgiven?
Because all things are still possible with God right?
Look at Paul's transformation!

Just wondering...

Well, as I see it, when you planted the seed in your mind and heart that God is evil, or that what comes from God is the work of the Devil, then you are lost, you have closed your mind and heart to God and his ways. Now I believe that it is possible to come to the Salvation of Christ if what you said said was out of maybe spite, or ignorance, or just "Being Tough" mentality. But Those are my Words, Not Gods, and only have the weight of me the man.

Paul of course was a special case, he believed the Christians to be the Heretics and Blasphemers,so there is a bit of irony there, that was of course until God set him straight.

Now, if you call what comes from God to be the product of Satan, what on earth would change your mind in this?

But, even if you did Find Jesus, after this fact, it would weigh heavy on you that you said as you said, cursing the works and commands of God as Evil things, the words spoken can not be taken back, so this would be something you would carry with you all your days.

Now, I can not say what God would and would not do, that is not my place, God is my Master, I am not his.

I would say, given what I know, from only what I have read, coming from me the man, and having only the authority of me the man in my own words, I think, Jesus called it unforgivable for a reason, and I can only respect that. If God did call you home to him at a later date, then that is Gods actions and Gods Will, and not for me to judge.

However, in good faith, because I could not tell your motives, be ignorance, spite, or just naivety, or true conviction, I would cease making any attempt to talk about God or Christ with you, or being so insulting as trying to convert you, I would need to respect what Jesus said, and because to the best of what I know, it will do you no good from that point on.

I am not sure if I have provided you an answer to your Question, if I have not, please let know.

God Bless

Key

 

[WashedClean]

The sin, in it's purest form, is "Calling that which from God to be from the Devil, or to be Evil"

This can be done in many ways. For example, blasphemy is not where one says "I think your religion is wrong" or even to say "There is no God"

It comes from saying "Your God is Evil" or the People that follow God are really following the Devil (Evil).

It is the focus on the action, to say "I have seen Christan's and they are the most evil people in the world" is not Blasphemy, That very well could be truth. But to say "You do what you do as a Christian because your source is Evil" that means, your are calling God himself, his guidance, is a source of Evil. But, the only part is, if they are really doing what they are doing for self serving reasons, then there is no blasphemy. If they are doing what they are doing out of service to God and his directives alone, then that is blasphemy, because they are doing what the Holy Spirit directs.

You can insult the man (Person) all you want, to say "You are Evil" is irrelevant, it is when you focus on the source that becomes the issue.

For example: You see a person the street, holding a sign that says "Adoption is an Option, please prevent abortion", and you say "That person does what they do because of self serving greed and ego (Sources of Evil, or Satan), when in truth, their motives come purely from God.

Now you can say "That man is a Jerk" that man is a imposing jacka--, or what ever you wish to say about the man, you could even say, that man is wrong, misguided, that God does not want us to do that, etc. None of that is Blasphemy.

But when you say "You do what you do because of Satan in you" when they do what they do because of the "Holy Spirit in them" then that is Blasphmey.

God does not take kindly, to call the things that he has provided, and given to us, to be from Satan. That is true Blasphemy.

That is how I have always understood it, that is what Jesus was talking about. To say "What God has provided to be from Satan"

Calling that which is from God to be from Satan.

I hope I have provided you an answer to this question.

God Bless

Key

This is the best explanation I have ever heard of this unforgivable sin. Thank you for helping me understand it more clearly!

 

[gratis]

Well, as I see it, when you planted the seed in your mind and heart that God is evil, or that what comes from God is the work of the Devil, then you are lost, you have closed your mind and heart to God and his ways. Now I believe that it is possible to come to the Salvation of Christ if what you said said was out of maybe spite, or ignorance, or just "Being Tough" mentality. But Those are my Words, Not Gods, and only have the weight of me the man.

Paul of course was a special case, he believed the Christians to be the Heretics and Blasphemers,so there is a bit of irony there, that was of course until God set him straight.

Now, if you call what comes from God to be the product of Satan, what on earth would change your mind in this?

But, even if you did Find Jesus, after this fact, it would weigh heavy on you that you said as you said, cursing the works and commands of God as Evil things, the words spoken can not be taken back, so this would be something you would carry with you all your days.

Now, I can not say what God would and would not do, that is not my place, God is my Master, I am not his.

I would say, given what I know, from only what I have read, coming from me the man, and having only the authority of me the man in my own words, I think, Jesus called it unforgivable for a reason, and I can only respect that. If God did call you home to him at a later date, then that is Gods actions and Gods Will, and not for me to judge.

However, in good faith, because I could not tell your motives, be ignorance, spite, or just naivety, or true conviction, I would cease making any attempt to talk about God or Christ with you, or being so insulting as trying to convert you, I would need to respect what Jesus said, and because to the best of what I know, it will do you no good from that point on.

I am not sure if I have provided you an answer to your Question, if I have not, please let know.

God Bless

Key

You make good points, and I mostly agree. I just like to hold onto my hope that anyone can be forgiven....
After all I'm sure a lot of people blasphemed God before there change of heart....and today it probably makes them better believers because of that.

 

[malckiah]

Hello friend, i like to look at all things ofcourse considering all of scripture along with the spiritual common sense that The Lord blesses us with... for The spirit doesnt speak with huge words, but in words that are easily understood and that connot be argued.
Well, lets look at what we know, we know that there is no sin too big for The Lord to pay for and indeed He paid for all of our sins...... so this tells us that the only sin that can be unforgiveable is the sin of denying God's sacrifice for our sin. God Bless You! amen.

 

[gratis]

'Key' makes wonderful points, and I also think that we should look into what may have been lost in translation. The meaning in Greek or Hebrew doesn't always have the same meaning in english.

 

[Space]

Love forgives everything. Love is always trusting, and always hoping, and never gives up.
-1 Corinthians 13:7 (Worldwide English (New Testament))

'Nuff said!

 

[starelda]

Bumpity-bump...because I see someone else is asking a similar thing and this thread might be of interest.

 

[EmbracingHim]

There does seem to be two threads on the same subject. . My comments are stated in the other thread.

Forgiveness is a matter for God to determine as He judges the hidden motives and hearts of man. We are saved by the grace of God, but to trample upon grace is another matter. Those with reprobate minds are not saved, nor forgiven. They are given over to their perverse ways that they choose according to scripture. We ourselves do not have the power to read the hearts of men though. As well, forgiveness is not equal to salvation in all cases. We ourselves forgive all -- but that does not mean that we invite a murderer into our home.

God bless.