Undying God and Jesus' death

[OneChristianLight]

On another website the other day, I was involved in an online discussion with a non-believer. He made the argument that Jesus’ death on the cross supposedly contradicted the idea of an all-powerful, undying God. In other words, since Jesus is God, and God is all-powerful and cannot die, then why did Christ die on the cross?

I’m usually a good apologist who is well-equipped with Bible knowledge and scripture, but I just didn’t know how to respond appropriately. I would appreciate it if other members could break apart this argument and explain things correctly so that I’ll know how to reply in the event that an atheist poses this same question to me in the future.

 

[graceandpeace]

This is a difficult question.

Some of the explanations I've heard fall short for me. I think it's because ultimately this is another mystery of faith that isn't readily comprehended.

Christians believe God is immortal - so how can God "die?" We also believe in the hypostatic union, so we can't say only the "human part" of Jesus died.

We could say that Jesus, as the God-man, experienced death in a literal, biological sense (death came to his human body) - and that somehow, his divinity tasted death for us. Christians typically believe in the immortality of the soul, so we could say Jesus, as God, did not cease to exist, only that his human body died.

So, what the Resurrection then shows is that unlike regular human beings, Jesus as the God-man has power over death. Just as Jesus lived again, so we believe we also one day will be raised.

 

[jacksknight]

Actually it's quite easy. Being all powerful isn't defined by living or dying, it's as simple as that. Jesus Christ has the power to die and rise again if he so chooses.

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

On another website the other day, I was involved in an online discussion with a non-believer. He made the argument that Jesus’ death on the cross supposedly contradicted the idea of an all-powerful, undying God. In other words, since Jesus is God, and God is all-powerful and cannot die, then why did Christ die on the cross?

I’m usually a good apologist who is well-equipped with Bible knowledge and scripture, but I just didn’t know how to respond appropriately. I would appreciate it if other members could break apart this argument and explain things correctly so that I’ll know how to reply in the event that an atheist poses this same question to me in the future.

Jesus is not dead. The point of the resurrection was to show that Jesus is God and that even death does not have control over him.

 

[Charlie24]

Jesus Christ was man in the flesh, while at the same time, God in the spirit.

The scripture says "God cannot die," but God is a spirit. The spirit of God (Christ) didn't die, it was the flesh that died and rose again as will all who trust in Christ.

I would tell the unbeliever you encountered that the real person (as with Christ) is not the flesh but spirit which will never die. The flesh is the shell of the real person.

Jesus tells us the flesh will die, but the spirit will never die.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[1213]

On another website the other day, I was involved in an online discussion with a non-believer. He made the argument that Jesus’ death on the cross supposedly contradicted the idea of an all-powerful, undying God. In other words, since Jesus is God, and God is all-powerful and cannot die, then why did Christ die on the cross?

I think only way to have good answer to this is to be faithful to what Jesus said in the Bible. And Jesus said that God dwells in him and just before Jesus died, he said God forsake him. So by Bible word, God didn’t die on the cross.

…, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. …
John 14:10-14

About the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?" That is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mat. 27:46

If God would have died, how could he have raised Jesus from the death?


God raised him up the third day, and gave him to be revealed,
Acts 10:40

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Jesus Christ was man in the flesh, while at the same time, God in the spirit.

The scripture says "God cannot die," but God is a spirit. The spirit of God (Christ) didn't die, it was the flesh that died and rose again as will all who trust in Christ.

I would tell the unbeliever you encountered that the real person (as with Christ) is not the flesh but spirit which will never die. The flesh is the shell of the real person.

Jesus tells us the flesh will die, but the spirit will never die.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I agree. However, the resurrection was both physical and spiritual. Hence the empty tomb. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father both physically and spiritually.

 

[Greg J.]

God is, from a human perspective, all powerful, but he is not all-willing. Typical human understanding of "freedom" and "good" are twisted. Humans are very used to making decisions based on whether they have the power to do it or not. It is a part of every decision we make, whether we are conscious of it or not. Our way of thinking gives rise to false ideas like, "if God has the power to do anything, and it seems good to him to do something, it's OK for him to do it." But God doesn't make decisions based on whether he has enough power or not. He also doesn't wrestle with what is good or what is best like we do. He also doesn't necessarily have a reason we can understand regarding whether he is going to do something or not.

God has the unique quality that when he decides to do something and will never change his mind, it's like a law of physics. It is a choice for God whether to behave in ways consistent with his nature or not. He has chosen to always and forever behave according to his nature. The reliability of this is not similar to any human behavior we have experienced. It's more like the reliability of gravity continuing to exist. Even if everything in the universe were destroyed, gravity would still work in exactly the same way. (It's more likely that God will be good and trustworthy tomorrow than gravity will still be working.)

God's choice to always behave in ways consistent with who he is means that he will never do anything immoral. Jesus' death was the only moral way God could save us, and even then, it doesn't violate our free will. Whether people accept Jesus as their Lord or not determines what options God will have regarding them on Judgment Day. No matter what, he will do what is morally right.

 

[Optimax]

On another website the other day, I was involved in an online discussion with a non-believer. He made the argument that Jesus’ death on the cross supposedly contradicted the idea of an all-powerful, undying God. In other words, since Jesus is God, and God is all-powerful and cannot die, then why did Christ die on the cross?

I’m usually a good apologist who is well-equipped with Bible knowledge and scripture, but I just didn’t know how to respond appropriately. I would appreciate it if other members could break apart this argument and explain things correctly so that I’ll know how to reply in the event that an atheist poses this same question to me in the future.

Before Jesus became a man, He emptied or stripped himself of His Glory (all his God stuff) and became a man.

Phil 2:6-9
6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
7 Nay, He stripped Himself of His glory, and took on Him the nature of a bondservant by becoming a man like other men.
8 And being recognized as truly human, He humbled Himself and even stooped to die; yes, to die on a cross.
9 It is in consequence of this that God has also so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other, Weymouth

While on the earth He was still 100% God as well as 100% man, however He was without his God stuff or Glory and operated as a prophet under the OT covenant.

 

[Charlie24]

Christ was the obedient servent who laid aside His deity as God, and was totally led by the Holy Spirit. Every miracle He performed and everything He said was from and by the Holy Spirit through Him.
When the woman who touched His garment, believing she would be healed, Jesus said, "who touched me," He actually didn't know who touched Him. He was 100% man, but yet at His fingertips was all the power of God, for He is God,but He laid that power aside and was totally led by the Holy Spirit.
When Jesus was asked when He would return, He said "no man knows" that included Him. He didn't know because He laid aside His deity.
That is what God wants from us, to be totally led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[ViaCrucis]

On another website the other day, I was involved in an online discussion with a non-believer. He made the argument that Jesus’ death on the cross supposedly contradicted the idea of an all-powerful, undying God. In other words, since Jesus is God, and God is all-powerful and cannot die, then why did Christ die on the cross?

I’m usually a good apologist who is well-equipped with Bible knowledge and scripture, but I just didn’t know how to respond appropriately. I would appreciate it if other members could break apart this argument and explain things correctly so that I’ll know how to reply in the event that an atheist poses this same question to me in the future.

The answer is the Hypostatic Union.

Christ is both God and man.

This does lead us to a paradox: God who cannot die did die, because the One who died though God was also human. We can't say, "Only Jesus' human part or side died" because Jesus doesn't have a human part or a human side, Jesus is entirely human, just as He is entirely God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Before Jesus became a man, He emptied or stripped himself of His Glory (all his God stuff) and became a man.

Phil 2:6-9
6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
7 Nay, He stripped Himself of His glory, and took on Him the nature of a bondservant by becoming a man like other men.
8 And being recognized as truly human, He humbled Himself and even stooped to die; yes, to die on a cross.
9 It is in consequence of this that God has also so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other, Weymouth

While on the earth He was still 100% God as well as 100% man, however He was without his God stuff or Glory and operated as a prophet under the OT covenant.

Heresy and an improper use of Scripture.

Jesus never ceased to be anything other than Almighty, all powerful, and eternal God. Jesus did not "strip Himself of His 'God stuff'" that's rank heresy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Optimax]

Heresy and an improper use of Scripture.

Jesus never ceased to be anything other than Almighty, all powerful, and eternal God. Jesus did not "strip Himself of His 'God stuff'" that's rank heresy.

-CryptoLutheran

Even though scripture clearly tells us that you call it "Heresy and an improper use of Scripture".

I believe what the scripture say.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Even though scripture clearly tells us that you call it "Heresy and an improper use of Scripture".

I believe what the scripture say.

Scripture doesn't say that Jesus was stripped of His "God stuff". Scripture says that Christ emptied Himself, lowered Himself, and submitted Himself to God the Father as a servant. In none of that is there any suggestion that Christ, in anyway, divested Himself of His Deity.

If you can find me Scripture that says that Christ, in anyway, divested Himself or removed from Himself His "God stuff", or that He in anyway was less than absolute and complete God--eternal, almighty, and actual God--then you are free to provide it. Since no Scripture actually says that, I imagine that will be a most difficult task to accomplish.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[graceandpeace]

The answer is the Hypostatic Union.

Christ is both God and man.

This does lead us to a paradox: God who cannot die did die, because the One who died though God was also human. We can't say, "Only Jesus' human part or side died" because Jesus doesn't have a human part or a human side, Jesus is entirely human, just as He is entirely God.

-CryptoLutheran

^This is much more direct & what I was trying to get at it in my post. It's a tough question for sure.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Tell this person...

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"-John 1:14A

That is why He was able to die.

"Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." - John 2:19"

That is why He lives forever.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

This is a difficult question.

Some of the explanations I've heard fall short for me. I think it's because ultimately this is another mystery of faith that isn't readily comprehended.

Christians believe God is immortal - so how can God "die?" We also believe in the hypostatic union, so we can't say only the "human part" of Jesus died.

We could say that Jesus, as the God-man, experienced death in a literal, biological sense (death came to his human body) - and that somehow, his divinity tasted death for us. Christians typically believe in the immortality of the soul, so we could say Jesus, as God, did not cease to exist, only that his human body died.

So, what the Resurrection then shows is that unlike regular human beings, Jesus as the God-man has power over death. Just as Jesus lived again, so we believe we also one day will be raised.

I think people have to understand that Jesus was man when He was here on earth, He left His power and stepped down to save us.

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,​

 

[Lord Kyrios]

Before Jesus became a man, He emptied or stripped himself of His Glory (all his God stuff) and became a man.

Phil 2:6-9
6 Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
7 Nay, He stripped Himself of His glory, and took on Him the nature of a bondservant by becoming a man like other men.
8 And being recognized as truly human, He humbled Himself and even stooped to die; yes, to die on a cross.
9 It is in consequence of this that God has also so highly exalted Him, and has conferred on Him the Name which is supreme above every other, Weymouth

While on the earth He was still 100% God as well as 100% man, however He was without his God stuff or Glory and operated as a prophet under the OT covenant.

Jesus Is called Kupios & God Is called Kupios In The Greek Bible. Every Title that applies to God, also applies to Jesus in the Greek.
Example: Jesus is Kupie, Kupiw, Kupiou and God is Kupie, Kupiw, Kupiou. Jesus is God Because His Father is God.
In other words, Your Son inherited your last name so why cannot Jesus be called by His Father's Name, GOD?

 

[1213]

...Jesus is God Because His Father is God...

Am I also god, if I am children of God, as disciples on Jesus should be?

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name:
John 1:12

 

[narnia59]

On another website the other day, I was involved in an online discussion with a non-believer. He made the argument that Jesus’ death on the cross supposedly contradicted the idea of an all-powerful, undying God. In other words, since Jesus is God, and God is all-powerful and cannot die, then why did Christ die on the cross?

I’m usually a good apologist who is well-equipped with Bible knowledge and scripture, but I just didn’t know how to respond appropriately. I would appreciate it if other members could break apart this argument and explain things correctly so that I’ll know how to reply in the event that an atheist poses this same question to me in the future.

Jesus Christ is a divine person with two natures, divine and human.

God dies on the cross because Jesus (God) assumed a human nature. He experienced a human death -- the separation of his human soul from his human body. That does not mean he ceased to exist for a period of time any more than it means we cease to exist when we die. But the person of Jesus (God) experienced human death (separation of human soul from human body) just as we do.

The need here is to clearly define what is meant by death, which in no way means to cease to exist as this person concludes.