Understanding the Sabbath

Symes said:

God'sWatchman


"Paul then warned the Christians to not go back under the Law in observing feast days and Sabbath days"

Paul never told us to stop keeping the Sabbath. Sure he said not to keep the feast days but that is not the seventh day Sabbath as the author is trying to imply.

"Paul warned by the Spirit that these believers could not be Christ like under the Law."

WRONG, Paul said in Romans 7:12
"So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good."

John 15:10
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."


Does that seem like someone is saying that the law has been done away with? Not from my reading of it. Christ never done away with the law.



"Here we come to a stern warning for those seeking to be justified by keeping the Old Covenant Sabbath or any other part of the shadow of the Law"

No one is even trying to be justified by the keeping of the Sabbath. It just gets to the point where nearly everything he says is wrong. He twists words to suit his own ideas. Like he has done here with what I have quoted from him. I do not need to do any more as is seems enough to show he is not being honest with Scripture.

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Please clarify what you are saying. are these scriptures, if so where are the scriptures? If not, why is any of this being brought to the discussion? We can look at a scripture and then discuss it without more scripture but we must first understand what we are looking at.

Read John 15 in it's entirety rather than in bits and peaces and you get a much different picture and idea of what is being taught. The command in John 15 that Jesus is referring to is to Love one another. I dare to be so bold to say that if we LOve as Christ Loved, then all else falls nicely into place.

razzelflabben said:

Sorry for the mix up I really was rushed at the time. Idea is the same though. Satan knows all to well how to exhalt God. Let us not forget that he started out as an angel. Scripture also tells us that he poses as an angel of light. It is not above Satan to pretend to be a believer, in fact, he does believe. This basic idea is why Satan has such an easy time at decieving people and luring them into a false belief on many issues. It is also why we must always exercise great care in studying the Word of God rather than someone elses teachings. It is why it is imparative to study for ourselves and ask the hard questions that we find so uncomfortable.

I must take a break and feed my family but I would like to look at the sight in question for myself. It would save time if you could redirect me to this link. Thanks

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Hi Razzelflabben

I completly forgot about those verses myself for I use them when I try to share on testiing the spirits. See I told you we needed you here. Thanks for the reminder.

Hoisted by me own petard I am!

yours in Christ
deu58

Hi John

I am looking at your mark of the beast study and I want to ask acouple things.
I remember you sending this study to me. I have it on file and want to take a closer
look at it. I am side tracked by being in half a dozen threads here but I plan to post you within the next couple of days on this God bless!

yours in Christ
deu58

Hello to all,

I would like to make a slight turn here regarding the ten commandments. I believe we can all agree as to which day the literal Sabbath falls on that being the seventh day, Saturday. I believe we all can agree that no where in the bible do we find God changing the Sabbath day from Saturday to any other day. Now lets take these thoughts and bring them over to help us identify the beast.

Without going into an in depth study of the beast I would like to suggest that the beast in an inward thing. The beast is self worship in other words, living and making choices without God's influence and direction.

The beast is not one person but rather it's fallen mankind, the mind of Adam, the sin nature, it's thinking naturally, the carnal mind.

This fallen mindset is adversarial to God's thoughts and influence. Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

This adversarial mind desires the will of man (self) over God's will as seen in Jesus' rebuke to Peter. Matthew 16:21-23 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!'' But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.''

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Ok John, I can agree with a lot of this on the spiritual level. In some of the studies I share with others on the mark of Cain one of the things I share is even though Cain and his physical mark are long since dead and gone, the evil spirit that caused Cain to murder his brother in the first place is alive and well raising up spiritual children of Cain today.

Da 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Da 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

These are the Babylonian , Medo Persian, Greek and Rome. These are representative of actual political systems.

Re 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

We see the same kind of symbology used in Revelation. Using scripture to interpret scripture this would indicate a physical political system. This system will have a political leader such as the world has never seen before. Remember that Satan always tries to imitate God. As God sent his own son and in him was the full embodiment of the power of God ,so to will Satan try to replicate this in the political leader who will lead the New World order. The technology is already in place for such a one world system to take place. the only thing missing is a leader. when that leader comes in him will be the full embodiment of the power of Satan. This man will know full well who their father is and they will strive to serve Satan as Jesus strived to serve God.

The natural mind can and will not submit to God. This natural mind is in every one of us whether we are a Christian or not. Being a Christian means we fight against and resist the carnal mind in order to receive God's thoughts.

This carnal mind is subtle and crafty and easily leads us astray from God's thoughts and intents.

This subtle mind desires worship and will form a religious system that is very moral but resists God's thoughts pertaining to Himself and How He is to be worshiped and known.

This religious system will have a form of godliness but deny the power. The power it denies is the power to deliver us from sin, of being separated from God in not knowing and understanding Him.

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This religious system is already in place and growing stronger every day. It is a combination of Apostate organized religion that will fully embrace
the practitioners of the New Age religions and other cultic religions who do not accept Christ as the son of God and the Messiah and the only way to access God. Our church history has shown in the new and old testaments there are many who claim to love God first but when push comes to shove they will embrace the ways and Idols of the world. The Jews did it in the old testament and The apostate church is doing it today. If you look around
at the different topics on this thread you will see quite a few posts from those who claim to be Christians who are against other Christians who take a Biblical stance against those who claim Jesus is the only way to God and the Bible is the only authorized doctrine.

This religious system will have a form of godliness, it will have the ten commandments but they will be distorted in the area of God's desire in how we should know and worship Him.

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I do not believe this system will have the ten commandments. Consider what happened to in Alabama recently to Chief Justice Roy Moore over the ten commandments.

This system is not the antichrist nor is it the beast but rather its a manifestation of it. The beast is within all of us and needs to be crucified, DAILY. But somehow it has been able to rise up and deceive causing many to follow after it.

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Again I agree with you on a spiritual level and you are biblically correct from a spiritual point of view.

Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Ro 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Ro 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Ro 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Ro 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Lets examine ourselves to see if we have the mark, the image or even the name (character) of the beast in our worship and understanding of God. Lets see if we are defending the manifestation of it in what we say and in how we study and share God's word.

In order to examine ourselves we will look at God's law as the tool used to identify the beast. But we won't be look at the last six for they are moral and have the ability to glorify self. We will be looking at the first four because this is where the beast is killed. This is where worship is taken away from the beast and given to God. This is where the children of God know their Father personally, not as a mystery.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord:

Isaiah 45:5-6 I am the Lord, and there is no other; there is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other;

1 Kings 8:60-61 "That all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other. "Let your heart therefore be loyal to the Lord our God, to walk in His statutes and keep His commandments, as at this day.''

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Do we know this God in the religious system we worship in....?

Do we have any other gods before Him? How about self?

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Notice how God says we hate Him if we're doing these things, are we doing this in our religious system? If we are we will never know Him personally.

Are we bowing down to anything outside of God? How about our own thoughts, are we bowing down to them?

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

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Again I agree with you to a point. yes many have received the spiritual and mental mark of the beast already. But you already know that because you deal with these kinds of people every day who care not about any law man or God. We see a lesser form of it in those who claim to have a concern for the laws of man but no concern for the laws of God. actually it is the latter who will embrace the anti Christ because he will appear to have all the answers to our problems and will institute a law with out God . To me the only real flaw in your argument is this. We are a three part being. you are correct in your mental and spiritual assessment. But salvation is still open to even the most evil of people today.

When the anti Christ comes to power he will demand that his followers accept his mark in their flesh and if you do you will be beyond redemption for you have chosen whom you will serve. All three parts of their being will be committed to Satan and his will and there is no turning back.

Re 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand
Re 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

According to Revelation the mark is a physical mark.

Re 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Re 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name

This is what rules out Sunday as being the Mark of the Beast. This mark has a physical presence where every one can see it. With out it you
will not even be able to buy a piece of bubble gum at the little mom and pop store down on the corner.

Do we take God's name in vain? How about His character? That's what a name represents, God's law is His character.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Are we remembering the seventh day Sabbath in our religious system or are we finding ways to escape God's desire for His creation? Jesus, speaking His Father's words, does not change the Sabbath day but rather He explains it to us in how we can enjoy it and keep it holy.

Mark 3:4 And Jesus said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?'' But they kept silent.

John 5:16-17 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.''

Matthew 12:1-8 At that time Jesus went on the Sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were a hungered, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the Sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.

Jesus didn't change the Sabbath day but He tells us He will be Lord of it in directing our lives in it. He will guide us in keeping it holy through our conscience.

Our we changing the Sabbath day by not working and keeping another day holy other than the seventh day. How about the State ordered Sunday law referring to the opening of stores and shops? Why not the Saturday law?
My question is, who sitting on God's throne in our lives? Is it God or is it the beast, us?

2 Thess.2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is all inwardly...this is us when we refuse to hear God in what He is saying.

Did we really die with Christ or are we just fooling ourselves.

Truth in love,
John

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I am getting ready to prepare an article dealing with above. It is something I posted in my first post on this Thread. I need to do a little more historical research to see if I can fill the it out a little more.


yours in Christ
deu58

deu

This is what rules out Sunday as being the Mark of the Beast. This mark has a physical presence where every one can see it. With out it you
will not even be able to buy a piece of bubble gum at the little mom and pop store down on the corner.

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Don't be deceived, it does not rule out Sunday at all. You are going to say it does so that you can keep Sunday as your sabbath. But that is not going to happen like that. You are right about not being able to buy a piece of bubble gum.

Symes said:

deu


Don't be deceived, it does not rule out Sunday at all. You are going to say it does so that you can keep Sunday as your sabbath. But that is not going to happen like that. You are right about not being able to buy a piece of bubble gum.

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Hello symes

You do not understand anything do you? Sunday is not my sabbath. Jesus Christ is my
sabbath. Yesterday I went to my wifes church and I worshiped God in spirit and truth
It was Saturday. While I was there I was challenged to a debate during the study period so we argued about Ellen White then the actuall service started. after the service we all shared a common meal at the church and they want me to come back next week so we can debate some more. then the wife and the three adventist medical missionaries who are living in my house, one who has been a close friend for 9
years went home and we had more bible studies together. And a good time was had
by one and all. I do not need a day to Worship God symes Satan can take all seven days for himself and I really do not care. He can not take my mind body or soul. You have to give that to him. its about Jesus symes and thats all its about.

yours in christ
deu58

deu58 said:

Hello symes

You do not understand anything do you? Sunday is not my sabbath. Jesus Christ is my
sabbath. Yesterday I went to my wifes church and I worshiped God in spirit and truth
It was Saturday. While I was there I was challenged to a debate during the study period so we argued about Ellen White then the actuall service started. after the service we all shared a common meal at the church and they want me to come back next week so we can debate some more. then the wife and the three adventist medical missionaries who are living in my house, one who has been a close friend for 9
years went home and we had more bible studies together. And a good time was had
by one and all. I do not need a day to Worship God symes Satan can take all seven days for himself and I really do not care. He can not take my mind body or soul. You have to give that to him. its about Jesus symes and thats all its about.

yours in christ
deu58

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What a wonderful and liberating truth and no matter what the world says or does, it is my relationship with God that prevails. In debates like this one, I often think about those who have not choise, because of jobs, slavery, even during a holocaust when people were in consentration camps. It is only when we see God over the law that we can look them squarely in the face and say that God loves them without shame.

Hi John

I still think you are over spiritualizing. You do have a lot of good points. Satans goal is to eliminate the name of Jesus from the earth. There has been a strategy in place for this and it is really bearing fruit for satan today The High crime and corrupt government
the terrorist and many other things that plague our society today are all to make us feel helpless. all these things have been caused by satan to prepare us for his false messiah. he is going to have all the answers to our problems. people have trouble placing thier faith in something they can not see, so they will not turn to God. Satan is going to appeal to our physical senses and I believe it is going to happen soon because he is running out of time. He is going to provide a messiah that will bring in a temporary false peace. he is going to do all the things nobody else could do. reduce crime appease the terrorists make peace in the middle east and then declare only God do what he has done and then demand we worship him. Many of the things you claim are not really something the common believer would notice. The anti christ will be revealed in such a way that even the simple will know. some will notice him before others and try to sound the alarm. they will be first to disappear or lose their faith through torture. they will be forced to make public statements that they were wrong
and will be the first to take the mark publicly to show every body it is ok. and they will betray there brothers and sisters to the beast. a lot more could be said but thats enough for now

yours in christ
deu58

k4c said:

I'm not over spiritualizing it, this is where the battle is. Nothing can happen outwardly until it first happens inwardly. Do you think satan can be everywhere at once? Ever since the fall we have fallen further and further away from how we were created. There are even points in history where God said, enough is enough, and destroyed everything and started over.

We have to keep in mind that deception is not always right up front and in your face. Deception doesn't even have to be found in right and wrong for we all know how to discern that, but rather deception is found in good and evil. This is why we need the Spirit to discern good and evil.

As far as your statement referring to satan trying to eliminate the name of Jesus from the earth, I believe is another deception. How can anyone be deceived by removing Jesus' name? Only those who out right refuse Christ will accept that deception. Satan won't try and remove Jesus' name because he is trying to deceive those who want Jesus. What satan will do is twist and pervert the true name of Jesus by promoting another Jesus, and another spirit and another gospel. This is where the deception is, this is where discernment is needed.

The difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is, one is in the mind, intellectual and the other is in the heart because of love.

When it's in the heart it becomes our character, we will be known by this character.

Blessings to you brother deu58,
John

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Do you think satan can be everywhere at once?

Satan cannot be everywhere at once, that is left for God however, the demons are abundant and everywhere and do have a lot of power. If you would like to have a discussion on Satan, demons and there power, we can do so but be for warned that it is best to attack such issues after understanding the truths of God. Satan is the great desciever and has trained his followers, demons and peole well. He is an expert. Yet for all of that we are warned in Jude verse 9 to exercise caution when accusing the devil and demons.

I was going to simply quote the verse and move on but reread the book of Jude and found many things of importance for us to understand in this discussion and since it would be more time concuming than I currently have to quote every word, I shall allow you the priviledge of looking it up and reading it for yourselves.

I have never understood the facination for Rev. and the end times. The book is written as a glimpse at something that the author can only try to communicate. I see no evidence that it was intended to become the focus of our lives. In fact, it was written so that every generation since Christ could read it and say that we live in the end times. I believe that God did this on purpose so that we never know nor can predict the time with any accuracy but rather than try, we see a picture of things to come that we would like to avoid and thus focus our lives, beings, hopes, dreams, conversations on God and not on what is to come. I had intended to point out some verses from Jude here but am currently shying away from oppertunities for people to blame me for thier own convictions so I shall simply allow you to read it and apply it as you see fit and pray that God will convict or encourage each as is appropriate in the Lord.

This thread is closed.

Thank You,
JeffreyLloyd
CF Moderator: Gen. Theology
Team Faithfulness