But in the Holy Bible the correspondences are also prevelent in it's letters, as well as in it's numbers. Here is just an example below. I didn't use my imagination to construct this.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Understanding the Genesis Creation Story in dept.
- Thread starter dana b
- Start date
But in the Holy Bible the correspondences are also prevelent in it's letters, as well as in it's numbers. Here is just an example below. I didn't use my imagination to construct this.
Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Odd that if they want to get a correspondence between M and N being the middle letters in the English and Greek alphabet and 'son of man', it only works with the English translation 'son of man' whose middle letters are actually 'o' and 'f'.
If you are talking about the bible and the Greek alphabet, surely you should look at son of man in Greek?
ο υιος του ανθρωπου
It does have an N but not in the middle, and no M
Then again the title son of Man comes from the Old Testament, the Hebrew ben adam, ובן־אדם
in Psalm 8:4 what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him,
or the Aramaic
bar enosh, כבר אנשׁ,
in Daniel 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
The middle letters in Hebrew and Aramaic are Kaph and Lamed. There is the letter Mem, m in ben adm, but it is the last letter and there isn't a Nun, or n.
The Aramaic has a nun, but no mim and the nun is the 5th letter.
Worse still, the middle letters of the Hebrew and Aramaic Alphabets are Kaf and Lamed (Kaph and Lamadh in Aramaic), which do no appear anywhere in ben adam or bar enosh.
Wouldn't your time line put the crucifixion at 500BC?
You do realise don't you, that Messiah comes from Hebrew and means anointed one?
Lets ignore the fact Catholics have extra books in the bible, which would throw off you numbering. When the New Testament was written, the books in the OT canon were in a different order. The last book was chronicles, both first and second chronicles were considered a single book, while the minor prophets were a single book. In the Septuagint, again ignoring the deuterocanonical books, you still have Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations Ezekiel and Daniel coming after the minor prophets. You have to wait until the 17th century to get an order of books in the bible with Nahum and Micah in the middle.
There are only so many letters in the alphabet, play around with different alphabets, mix them up with Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and their English translations, throw in the different orders of books in the bible, dodgy etymologies, and I am sure you could come up with verses and phrases to fit any letter or letters you want.
2Cor 3:6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Upvote
0
Keachian
On Sabbatical
Well actually going back to the Hebrew rather than diddling around in English, we can actually make some profound statements, Torah actually starts with Beth, rather than Aleph, this can conjure up ideas that Aleph is a sacred letter. but actually is used in the midrash as discussion over whether or not what is recorded is the Beginning, in fact even from my limited knowledge of Kabbalah the very fact that they base their esoteric thought on Hebrew linguistics, alphabet and appointing special meaning to that is more valid than your symbolism and I largely dismiss Kabbalah because it describes itself as magic
Upvote
0
That would be like going back to the Old Testament understandings. The law of Moses said "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." This is the covanant of the Moon. For this reason each day of Genesis ends with the statement "and the evening and the morning were the first day." ect. Under the more feeble light of the moon even human understanding is not at it's best.
But Jesus's new covenant brought at last the daylight with the light of the sun. There are many Bible verses comparing Jesus to light and Sun. It is the Bibles being read in English and German that have at last brought the light of day to Biblical understanding. That is because the Protestants finished the process of human beingings understanding the Bible.
With the last 500 years of the Pietists, Quakers, Calvinists, Zwiglians, Douchobors, and Mennonites ect. the human race is at last led back to the lord's understnanding. Today, in 2000AD the Millennium Matt.19;28 begins in Europe with the first act being to ban capital punishment by all twelve thrones. Although the younger generations are still with their eyes full of false prophet smoke, the christian cultures that developed in Europe over the past millennium are imbreeded into every aspect and spectrum of their national identities, that christianity is their character regardless of each new generation's personal supposed opinion of some particular subject at any given time. Christianity has permeated subcontinent over Centuries and today it has rippened! This is what the Bible forecasts.
Upvote
0
Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
I have already shown you how the compass directions you used to get six by adding up and down, were used by the early church, without adding the up and down, to get four symbolising the four gospels. I have shown you how you can turn your four compass directions + up and down into three dimensions and claim it symbolises the trinity. You can take these three dimensions and add Einstein's time to get four dimensions, amazingly the same number as the four gospels again proving Irenaeus was right all along.
Of course there are all the schemes that I have shown you don't work, like Jesus being crucified in the middle of the time period from 4000 BC and 3000 AD, or the idea Messiah is supposed to mean middle. If they are schemes that don't work, then they can't be biblical numerology, yet you were able to come up with these imaginative schemes.
Upvote
0
Calminian
Senior Veteran
- Feb 14, 2005
- 6,789
- 1,044
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
There's actually an error here I'd like to point out. The phrase "there was evening and there was morning," actually conveys that the day preceded night, not the other way around. Think about it? What does evening mean? Nighttime? No, it actually is a description of the beginning of nighttime or more accurately, the end of daytime. We also use the term dusk. And what is morning? You guessed it, it is the end of the night. We also use the term dawn.
Therefore we can clearly see why evening (dusk) is mentioned first, as it would logically follow the first day, turning into night for the first time. Dawn is then mentioned to let us know the first night subsequently also ended.
Look at Genesis 1:3-5 again, with this better understanding of the terms used.
Gen. 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “daytime,” and the darkness he called “nighttime.” And daytime ended (dusk), and nighttime ended (dawn) — and that was our first day.
Upvote
0
Keachian
On Sabbatical
Actually I think it parallels what God actually did, there was darkness, which God called night, then God said let there be light and so he called the light day. And so there was evening and then there was morning, this also could be thought of as the instigationg of the Hebrew definition if what a day is, that is lasting from evening to evening
Upvote
0
The evening is the beginning of the nightime, and the dawn is the beginning of the daylight. Dusk is verified to have commensed when some darkness is noticed in the sky. And the "dawn" is certainly not regarded as the last bit of darkness. The dawn is regarded as the "first bit of light." Dawn is the beginning of the light of day. We say "a new day is dawning."
So the above verse says;
"And the evening and the morning were the first day." Gen.1;5 KJV version
The evening is noticed with the approach of dimming darkness. It is the start and beginning of the dark period. Everybody goes home and gets ready to sleep.
The morning(Dawn) is noticed with the approach and beginning of daytime. The birds sing then because they are the first to notice the approach of daylight. The Bible states it correctly. God had to create the "light," so therefore the darkness was already in existence first.
You have stated a way of making it work out with words, but the Bible has many other reasons also that these six days are considered to begin with darkness and then end with light.
In Greek poetry a "comodeia" is a play which begins with trouble/darkness, but ends with sucsess/light. But a Greek play that begins with happyness/light and ends with trouble/darkness is called a "tragoodia." The Holy Bible presents our human life and civilization on this earth as a Comodeia.
So the above verse says;
"And the evening and the morning were the first day." Gen.1;5 KJV version
The evening is noticed with the approach of dimming darkness. It is the start and beginning of the dark period. Everybody goes home and gets ready to sleep.
The morning(Dawn) is noticed with the approach and beginning of daytime. The birds sing then because they are the first to notice the approach of daylight. The Bible states it correctly. God had to create the "light," so therefore the darkness was already in existence first.
You have stated a way of making it work out with words, but the Bible has many other reasons also that these six days are considered to begin with darkness and then end with light.
In Greek poetry a "comodeia" is a play which begins with trouble/darkness, but ends with sucsess/light. But a Greek play that begins with happyness/light and ends with trouble/darkness is called a "tragoodia." The Holy Bible presents our human life and civilization on this earth as a Comodeia.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
[
Fortunally the Bible shows us the meaning of the number "6" by using six days to complete Genesis creation. It was God's creation of this entire world and this world has six directions and not only four. East, West, North, South, Up, Down.
In Revelations also a full "six seals" are presented to be the entirety of our historical phenomena. Then there are six angels which minister unto the earth or world. But in each case the seventh Angel is outside and beyond the world. The seventh always represents "completion, it is done, it is finished, ect.
And Jesus Christ is the "center" of our Christian Calendar. All the years before him are called "before Christ." Obviously the years which are not before him must be after him. He is the middle of history as demonstrated to us on the world wide used Calendar of today. Today everybody is counting the years by Jesus!
As for the six direction also being correspondent to the six dimensions of material reality in this world here is are charts that show this. Six is the number of this world and of all material substance. The civilization which began with Adam in 4000BC has now gone through "six millenniums." Therefore we are today entering the 7th Millennium which is described in both Matt.19;28 and Rev.20;4,6
Fortunally the Bible shows us the meaning of the number "6" by using six days to complete Genesis creation. It was God's creation of this entire world and this world has six directions and not only four. East, West, North, South, Up, Down.
In Revelations also a full "six seals" are presented to be the entirety of our historical phenomena. Then there are six angels which minister unto the earth or world. But in each case the seventh Angel is outside and beyond the world. The seventh always represents "completion, it is done, it is finished, ect.
And Jesus Christ is the "center" of our Christian Calendar. All the years before him are called "before Christ." Obviously the years which are not before him must be after him. He is the middle of history as demonstrated to us on the world wide used Calendar of today. Today everybody is counting the years by Jesus!
As for the six direction also being correspondent to the six dimensions of material reality in this world here is are charts that show this. Six is the number of this world and of all material substance. The civilization which began with Adam in 4000BC has now gone through "six millenniums." Therefore we are today entering the 7th Millennium which is described in both Matt.19;28 and Rev.20;4,6
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
Assyrian
Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
As I have said before, the bible does use number symbolically, but once you leave the symbolic numbers the bible uses and start making them up yourself, you are just, well, making them up yourself. The bible does speak of the cardinal points of the compass, but in terms of the number four, the four winds and the four corners of the earth. There is no basis in scripture to add up and down to get the number six and more than there is to turn them into three dimensions to get the symbolic number six. The bible never say the history of the earth is six thousand years, though people have read that into the days of Genesis. And while Jesus' crucifixion is the the most important even in the history of the universe, the idea of dividing history into BC and AD was the brainchild of a sixth century monk Dionysius Exiguus, it is not an idea you find in the bible. And given that you are trying to tie it in with a mistranslation of the Hebrew word Messiah as Gree for middle, the whole idea is bogus.
Upvote
0
Calminian
Senior Veteran
- Feb 14, 2005
- 6,789
- 1,044
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
I'm fairly certain I'm right on this one. We can make a bet and you can pay up in heaven.
From Easton Bible Dictionary.
Evening
The period following sunset with which the Jewish day began Gen. 1:5; Mark 13:35 The Hebrews reckoned two evenings of each day, as appears from Ex. 16:12; 30:8; 12:6 (marg.); Lev. 23:5 (marg. R.V., “between the two evenings”
. The “first evening” was that period when the sun was verging towards setting, and the “second evening” the moment of actual sunset. The word “evenings” in Jer. 5:6 should be “deserts” (marg. R.V.).It's interesting how the ancient hebrews had 2 evenings, just prior to sunset and at sunset. But night, of course, starts after sunset, in fact quite a bit of time after sunset.
But I would appeal more to the plain language of the text. It's very obvious that if God created the light and called it day, this would be followed by Evening, which the hebrews understood to be the close of the day.
I won't be too dogmatic about this, but I do like my explanation better.
What really convinced me is the fact that the day was already there, when evening (dusk) is first mentioned. It follows so logically.
Gen. 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
To paraphrase: God named the light daytime, and named the darkness nighttime. Then the daytime came to an end, then the nighttime came to an end. And that made up the very first day.
The meaning just seems to fall of the passage.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
I'm fairly certain I'm right on this one. We can make a bet and you can pay up in heaven.
From Easton Bible Dictionary.
Evening
The period following sunset with which the Jewish day began Gen. 1:5; Mark 13:35 The Hebrews reckoned two evenings of each day, as appears from Ex. 16:12; 30:8; 12:6 (marg.); Lev. 23:5 (marg. R.V., between the two evenings). The first evening was that period when the sun was verging towards setting, and the second evening the moment of actual sunset. The word evenings in Jer. 5:6 should be deserts (marg. R.V.).
It's interesting how the ancient hebrews had 2 evenings, just prior to sunset and at sunset. But night, of course, starts after sunset, in fact quite a bit of time after sunset.
But I would appeal more to the plain language of the text. It's very obvious that if God created the light and called it day, this would be followed by Evening, which the hebrews understood to be the close of the day.
I won't be too dogmatic about this, but I do like my explanation better.
What really convinced me is the fact that the day was already there, when evening (dusk) is first mentioned. It follows so logically.
Gen. 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
To paraphrase: God named the light daytime, and named the darkness nighttime. Then the daytime came to an end, then the nighttime came to an end. And that made up the very first day.
The meaning just seems to fall of the passage.
No way! Eve, evening and the word dusk all express the notion of darkness.
Dawn, morning and daytime are all notions of a time when the sun is up.
I know that you can explain it to seem true, backwards. This is just the nature of language.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
