Understanding the Genesis Creation Story in dept.

[ebia]

You ask "how is a 7th place in the center of 12 places. Well the example is given in Numbers chapter two. Here are named six tribes of Israel. Then the camp of God is described. Then another six tribes are told where to camp. So "7" is the center space between the six numbers on one side and the six on the other. The number 12 can be divided by a space with six on each side. There is nothing in the space. "No man has seen God at any time."

There are 12 gates to the holy city of Jerusalem. Eze.48;31 Jesus told us that his body as the temple would be destroyed and raised up after three days.Jn.2;19-21 The human body has 12 entrances. Jesus told us that the "kingdom of God is within."Lk.17;22

The number 4 is the center of 7. Jesus is the light/sun which was created on the Genesis 4th day.Gen.1;16 That was the center of God's seven day Genesis creation. Jesus is the center of God's world, he is God's son. Whereas God as the number 7 is seen as an emply space to us, Jesus's number 4 is a visible number as is a man among men. Jesus came to earth as a man for us to see, but God to us is invisable.

The tribe of Judah use a "seven sticked canlelabra." This places the "4th" candle at the very center from whichever way you count. Judah was the "4th born" son of Israel. He was prophesied by his father to hold the sceptre until shiloah comes.Gen.49;10

4 is in the centre of seven is okay.
But the centre of 12 is between 6 and 7, not 7.

 

[dana b]

4 is in the centre of seven is okay.
But the centre of 12 is between 6 and 7, not 7.

But it is the "seventh place" from whichever side you approach it from. And it is empty space because God cannot be seen. The center of an even number is emptly space. But the center of an odd number is a number.

 

[ebia]

But it is the "seventh place" from whichever side you approach it from. And it is empty space because God cannot be seen. The center of an even number is emptly space. But the center of an odd number is a number.

It's the "seventh place" out of 13, not out of 12. By counting it as seven, you've increased your total.

 

[dana b]

It's the "seventh place" out of 13, not out of 12. By counting it as seven, you've increased your total.

So when in the Book of Numbers chapter two, when the plans for the camps are laid out, with God's land in the center the total is, as you show above, "13." God does count his land as another place/camp in this description.

So who would be the "13th" then, it wouldn't be God in the middle. Would it be the tribe of Judah(east) at the beginning, or the tribe of Naphtali(north) at the end?

The saying's of Jesus such as "the kingdom of God is within you" and the intention that "his body would be as the temple", cast down and resurrected, show what appears to be intentional correspondence between these. Then when we consider that the human body has 12 entrances just as the 12 gates of Jerusalem, more correspondence is added to begin creating a cosmological structure which is probably the same type of pattern both in a microcosm and a macrocosim form.

Investigating the leads to which these numbers take you will always be benificial and fruitful to a born again follower of Jesus.

Look at what happened to Daniel in the Old Testament.

"In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years,......" Dan.9;2

 

[ebia]

So when in the Book of Numbers chapter two, when the plans for the camps are laid out, with God's land in the center the total is, as you show above, "13." God does count his land as another place/camp in this description.

So who would be the "13th" then, it wouldn't be God in the middle. Would it be the tribe of Judah(east) at the beginning, or the tribe of Naphtali(north) at the end?

If you do that whichever one you count last. If you count the first six, then god as seven, then the remainder are 8,9,10,11,12 and 13. That's how counting works.

The saying's of Jesus such as "the kingdom of God is within you" and the intention that "his body would be as the temple", cast down and resurrected, show what appears to be intentional correspondence between these. Then when we consider that the human body has 12 entrances just as the 12 gates of Jerusalem, more correspondence is added to begin creating a cosmological structure which is probably the same type of pattern both in a microcosm and a macrocosim form.

Numerological garbage that demonstrates the human ability to find patterns where there are none.

 

[dana b]

If you do that whichever one you count last. If you count the first six, then god as seven, then the remainder are 8,9,10,11,12 and 13. That's how counting works.


Numerological garbage that demonstrates the human ability to find patterns where there are none.

But in the Bible there are many ways that counting works, and by it's doing so helps our understanding. Even the mathamatics called Biblical Numerics is a major miracle in itself. Counting works by how it explains ideas to us and helps us to understand.

In the Holy Bible there are many statements which are not understandable to the masses, but are put in parables and allegory. Jesus says this himself.Mark 4;11 Consider how complicated is the matter of his geneology. These few verses and ideas below give us no final answer to whether he should be called from the tribe of Judah or from the tribe of Joseph. After all the Patriarch Israel prophesised "the stone and shepherd would come of Joseph." Gen.49;24

 

[Keachian]

<snip>

The Messianic Jew in me just died, your Classification of the Books is all whack. If we're going to treat the NT in the same way as we treat the OT then what you'll find is that the whole of the NT is equivalent to the Torah and such classification would be:

1st Covenant
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

Prophets
Joshua
Judges
Samuel
Kings
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel
The Twelve

Writings

Psalm
Job
Proverbs

Song of Songs
Ruth
Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther

Daniel
Ezra-Nehemiah
Chronicles

2nd Covenant
Gospels
Acts
Pauline Letters
General Letters
Revelation

 

[dana b]

[

Well, yes, your Bible is different than our Christian Bibles. Our Christian biblical scholars classify the Pentatuch as five books, but they also have for a long time classified exactly five books as the "wisdom Literature." We Christians consider that five books of the Major Prophets to include Daniel. This is the Christian way of understanding the 66 book Protestant bible. I am well aware of the other two types of Christian bibles and the original Hebrew 39 book Bible.(i also know that you consider it to be just 24 books)

The Old Testament bible is composed of just, by the christian scholar's way of counting, 39 books. This is as if to say that the Old Testament Covanent expired after 39 centuries after Adam. The 40th book of our Protestant Christian Bible is the first book of Christiandom and proclaims the generations of Jesus Christ. I know that the canons of different Bibles have different orders to a small degree, and different numbers of books in them

. The chart below shows how the Protestant 66 book Bible of this final age is laid out so symetrically. But if you study how it was arrived at, it was not by the hands or minds of men. It's an amazing story of God's presence in this world.

 

[dana b]

 

[ebia]

Another bit of spurious pattern matching. Not to mention that Hebrews is not Pauline.

 

[Keachian]

Well, yes, your Bible is different than our Christian Bibles. Our Christian biblical scholars classify the Pentatuch as five books, but they also have for a long time classified exactly five books as the "wisdom Literature." We Christians consider that five books of the Major Prophets to include Daniel. This is the Christian way of understanding the 66 book Protestant bible. I am well aware of the other two types of Christian bibles and the original Hebrew 39 book Bible.(i also know that you consider it to be just 24 books)

The Old Testament bible is composed of just, by the christian scholar's way of counting, 39 books. This is as if to say that the Old Testament Covanent expired after 39 centuries after Adam. The 40th book of our Protestant Christian Bible is the first book of Christiandom and proclaims the generations of Jesus Christ. I know that the canons of different Bibles have different orders to a small degree, and different numbers of books in them

. The chart below shows how the Protestant 66 book Bible of this final age is laid out so symetrically. But if you study how it was arrived at, it was not by the hands or minds of men. It's an amazing story of God's presence in this world.

No, your whole thing is arbitrary, let's go again this time with an extended canon

Pentateuch (5)
Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

History (22)
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
1 Samuel
2 Samuel
1 Kings
2 Kings
1 Chronicles
2 Chronicles
Ezra
Nehemiah
1 Esdras
2 Esdras
Esther
Tobit
Judith
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees
3 Maccabees
4 Maccabees
Enoch
Jubilees

Wisdom (7)
Job
Psalms
Proverbs
Ecclesiastes
Song of Songs
Wisdom
Sirach

Prophets (18)
Major (6)
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Lamentations
Baruch
Ezekiel
Daniel
Minor (12)
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

Gospels (4)
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John

Apostolic History (1)
Acts

Pauline Letters (14)
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians
Laodiceans
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon

General Epistles (8)
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude

Apocalypse (1)
Revelations

coming to a round total of 80 books

 

[dana b]

Well you've beat me by three bible books. The most books that I have seen so far in a Bible Canon is the Orthodox Bible's 77 books.

 

[dana b]

 

[Keachian]

Well even with your Greek canon the Letter of Jeremiah is often included in Baruch of Jeremiah, you've missed Odes III Esdras appears in the Slavonic Orthodox in the place you have it, in the other two that accept it it is where I have placed it, and while you include it in an appendix place you don't include IV Maccabees which in the Greek Canon has merited an appendix place while III Esdras hasn't.

My list is based off of the Georgian Orthodox Canon and I included Enoch and Jubilees for the fun of it, but the largest Canon is the Ethiopian Broad Canon. But I digress, my point was that your list is arbitrary as concerned with order and most of your numbers only come from the separating of Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and Ezra-Nehemiah

 

[dana b]

Well even with your Greek canon the Letter of Jeremiah is often included in Baruch of Jeremiah, you've missed Odes III Esdras appears in the Slavonic Orthodox in the place you have it, in the other two that accept it it is where I have placed it, and while you include it in an appendix place you don't include IV Maccabees which in the Greek Canon has merited an appendix place while III Esdras hasn't.

My list is based off of the Georgian Orthodox Canon and I included Enoch and Jubilees for the fun of it, but the largest Canon is the Ethiopian Broad Canon. But I digress, my point was that your list is arbitrary as concerned with order and most of your numbers only come from the separating of Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and Ezra-Nehemiah

What are the three most majorly used Christian bible canons? Which are the three largest christian denominations world wide? Are there three of them which far surpass all of the rest? Is there three generalized names of christian churches which contain the largest followings today?

 

[Keachian]

What are the three most majorly used Christian bible canons? Which are the three largest christian denominations world wide? Are there three of them which far surpass all of the rest? Is there three generalized names of christian churches which contain the largest followings today?

Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Protestant

Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican

Well Considering that the Next largest: Assemblies of God is 50mil to Anglican's 77 mil and the Ethiopian Orthodox comes in next with its 35mil. Individually they don't, but taken as a whole they do.

Not really

 

[dana b]

Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Protestant

Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican

Well Considering that the Next largest: Assemblies of God is 50mil to Anglican's 77 mil and the Ethiopian Orthodox comes in next with its 35mil. Individually they don't, but taken as a whole they do.

Not really

Here is a chart about their Bible's.

 

[Assyrian]

Yup with 7, the number 4 is in the middle of the sequence, 7 is an odd number. 12 is an even number so the sequence doesn't have a number in the middle. Your attempt to change the space in the middle between two sixes into 'seven' is nonsense. Reminds me of the old finger counting joke.

How many fingers and thumbs do I have? Lets count them.
On my left hand, lets see, there's, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
And on my right, count down 10, 9, 8, 7, 6.
5 and 6 makes 11.

I have taken the whole numerology nonsense apart, perhaps you could address the problem I pointed out rather than just provide more evidence of how with a fertile imagination you can make up any numbers you want.

 

[dana b]

Yup with 7, the number 4 is in the middle of the sequence, 7 is an odd number. 12 is an even number so the sequence doesn't have a number in the middle. Your attempt to change the space in the middle between two sixes into 'seven' is nonsense. Reminds me of the old finger counting joke.

How many fingers and thumbs do I have? Lets count them.
On my left hand, lets see, there's, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
And on my right, count down 10, 9, 8, 7, 6.
5 and 6 makes 11.

I have taken the whole numerology nonsense apart, perhaps you could address the problem I pointed out rather than just provide more evidence of how with a fertile imagination you can make up any numbers you want.

Sometimes I'm a little slow. Could you please explain the "problem you pointed out" to me again. I need to be shown some problems that I sometimes tend to ignore. Sorry.

 

[Assyrian]

Sometimes I'm a little slow. Could you please explain the "problem you pointed out" to me again. I need to be shown some problems that I sometimes tend to ignore. Sorry.

With a little ingenuity and a lot of imagination you can make numbers fit any scheme you like, but they don't signify anything other than the fact you have an active imagination.