Understanding Submission to Authorities

[tuliplane]

So I'm in this predicament where the vehicle I have access to needs a minor modification to technically be compliant with the law (it has nothing to do with the functioning of the vehicle). I started wondering if I drive it, if I'll be going against the law, which would be going against scripture such as in Romans 13. The way the law is written, the driver must comply, not just the owner of the car. I don't own it and don't get to make the decision if this modification is made and was already told it will not be done. I was really struggling about this and praying and then in the morning I went to do my Bible reading, wondering if I'd read anything that would speak to me. I just so happened to be in 1 Peter 2 where verse 13 talks about submitting to authorities. This felt like God was indeed speaking to me. That would most likely mean He is saying he wants me to obey it right? It's just difficult because that means in order to obey, I can't drive...

Does submitting to the higher authorities mean obeying every law? Could submitting mean accepting any repercussions if they're not followed?

Say if the law is written 'you must do this or you could be fined this amount', would choosing to do it and accepting to pay the fine be permissible?

I could use some help figuring this one out!

 

[public hermit]

I think we should obey the law for a number of reasons and not just because of a biblical passage. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding regarding that particular passage, but just imagine the chaos if everyone decided at once to disobey all the laws! We need to obey laws.

Do you have to drive the vehicle? Is it a necessity? If so, then you should happily pay the fine if caught. I know what it's like to have a subpar vehicle and have to drive it to make a living. My suggestion is do the best you can with what you have, and work toward putting yourself in a position where this isn't an issue.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I would be interested to know what the issue is. I come from a third world country where ignoring the written law is the norm. The question there is not if one should, but how one should, get around the law. For an example, there, it is illegal to use PVC plumbing. But PVC is what everyone uses in construction. How do you do it? You hire a lawyer, whom you pay to pay your fine, and go buy the PVC you need. There, the law is not a command, but a guide.

The 55 mph speed limit, in some states, is such a guide. Nobody drives 55, the cops know it, the robbers know it, congress knows it, the judges know it. The charge when arrested, is "driving at an unsafe speed", which is a matter of opinion.

In the state where I used to live, a leaky exhaust was an obvious and chargeable offense. Where I live now, nobody cares.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So I'm in this predicament where the vehicle I have access to needs a minor modification to technically be compliant with the law (it has nothing to do with the functioning of the vehicle). I started wondering if I drive it, if I'll be going against the law, which would be going against scripture such as in Romans 13. The way the law is written, the driver must comply, not just the owner of the car. I don't own it and don't get to make the decision if this modification is made and was already told it will not be done. I was really struggling about this and praying and then in the morning I went to do my Bible reading, wondering if I'd read anything that would speak to me. I just so happened to be in 1 Peter 2 where verse 13 talks about submitting to authorities. This felt like God was indeed speaking to me. That would most likely mean He is saying he wants me to obey it right? It's just difficult because that means in order to obey, I can't drive...

Does submitting to the higher authorities mean obeying every law? Could submitting mean accepting any repercussions if they're not followed?

Say if the law is written 'you must do this or you could be fined this amount', would choosing to do it and accepting to pay the fine be permissible?

I could use some help figuring this one out!

Getting a "fix it" ticket for the infraction would be a big hassle! This is mainly why God wants us to follow the law, less stress in our lives.
Blessings

 

[eleos1954]

So I'm in this predicament where the vehicle I have access to needs a minor modification to technically be compliant with the law (it has nothing to do with the functioning of the vehicle). I started wondering if I drive it, if I'll be going against the law, which would be going against scripture such as in Romans 13. The way the law is written, the driver must comply, not just the owner of the car. I don't own it and don't get to make the decision if this modification is made and was already told it will not be done. I was really struggling about this and praying and then in the morning I went to do my Bible reading, wondering if I'd read anything that would speak to me. I just so happened to be in 1 Peter 2 where verse 13 talks about submitting to authorities. This felt like God was indeed speaking to me. That would most likely mean He is saying he wants me to obey it right? It's just difficult because that means in order to obey, I can't drive...

Does submitting to the higher authorities mean obeying every law? Could submitting mean accepting any repercussions if they're not followed?

Say if the law is written 'you must do this or you could be fined this amount', would choosing to do it and accepting to pay the fine be permissible?

I could use some help figuring this one out!

Does submitting to the higher authorities mean obeying every law? Could submitting mean accepting any repercussions if they're not followed?

No ... there are some laws that man makes that defy God's laws .... we are to obey God's laws above all ... driving a non-compliant vehicle has nothing to do with God's laws. One might experience repercussions from man's laws/regulations that are not God's laws .... that's a different matter. God's laws are based on relationships .... mankind's relationship with God and our relationship with one another.

The authorities put in place (law makers) and laws they create ... if we don't comply with man's laws/regulations there will be come kind of consequence for not doing so (imposed by man) and yeah one will be subject to whatever penalties are in place ... such as fines.

 

[tuliplane]

No ... there are some laws that man makes that defy God's laws .... we are to obey God's laws above all ... driving a non-compliant vehicle has nothing to do with God's laws. One might experience repercussions from man's laws/regulations that are not God's laws .... that's a different matter. God's laws are based on relationships .... mankind's relationship with God and our relationship with one another.

The authorities put in place (law makers) and laws they create ... if we don't comply with man's laws/regulations there will be come kind of consequence for not doing so (imposed by man) and yeah one will be subject to whatever penalties are in place ... such as fines.

So what does it mean in these verses?:

Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing.

Isn't it saying our conscience should have us obey those man made laws? And that, in verse 6, it's saying that ultimately, these laws become God's laws since those who appoint them are "God's ministers"?

Also, I do understand the man made punishments for breaking them. I'm just wondering if accepting that fact is a form of submission or if that defies the scripture...that God wants us to actually follow them (ones that don't go against Him) as opposed to just doing our own thing and accepting the consequence.

The other part that has me concerned is:

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

It seems to say God will show His wrath to us if we aren't following these rules

 

[eleos1954]

So what does it mean in these verses?:

Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing.

Isn't it saying our conscience should have us obey those man made laws? And that, in verse 6, it's saying that ultimately, these laws become God's laws since those who appoint them are "God's ministers"?

Also, I do understand the man made punishments for breaking them. I'm just wondering if accepting that fact is a form of submission or if that defies the scripture...that God wants us to actually follow them (ones that don't go against Him) as opposed to just doing our own thing and accepting the consequence.

The other part that has me concerned is:

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

It seems to say God will show His wrath to us if we aren't following these rules

God is interested in salvation (relationships) .....

It is true God appoints authorities (who are not righteous) ..... it is also true some (perhaps many) of those authorities create laws that are in
direct opposition to God's laws.

You think God will hold people accountable for unpaid parking tickets ... or perhaps loans that were unpaid, etc.?

No, man's laws do not become God's laws. That's strange to think that imo

Men in law making capacities are servants (ministers) of the state and not necessarily servants of God.

Let your conscience be your guide .... if it's being placed on your heart to fix it .... then fix it and get on with your life without
being concerned about it anymore.

I once got a ticket for having reflective material on some of my vehicles windows, I paid the ticket and removed it. Not because I was concerned what God thought about it ..... I did so because I didn't want to incur more tickets.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So I'm in this predicament where the vehicle I have access to needs a minor modification to technically be compliant with the law (it has nothing to do with the functioning of the vehicle). I started wondering if I drive it, if I'll be going against the law, which would be going against scripture such as in Romans 13. The way the law is written, the driver must comply, not just the owner of the car. I don't own it and don't get to make the decision if this modification is made and was already told it will not be done. I was really struggling about this and praying and then in the morning I went to do my Bible reading, wondering if I'd read anything that would speak to me. I just so happened to be in 1 Peter 2 where verse 13 talks about submitting to authorities. This felt like God was indeed speaking to me. That would most likely mean He is saying he wants me to obey it right? It's just difficult because that means in order to obey, I can't drive...

Does submitting to the higher authorities mean obeying every law? Could submitting mean accepting any repercussions if they're not followed?

Say if the law is written 'you must do this or you could be fined this amount', would choosing to do it and accepting to pay the fine be permissible?

I could use some help figuring this one out!

It depends on exactly which law it is that is being contemplated for refusal ...

A law that requires a person to verbally extol Caesar as Lord above all Lords isn't a law we must follow. However, stopping at a stop sign or refraining from driving a car that has disruptive modifications probably should be followed.

Tickets for Noisy Car Mods: Muffler Deletes, Loud Exhaust, and Loud Music

How states regulate noisy vehicles and vehicle exhaust systems that don't meet emissions standards.

www.drivinglaws.org

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

As I understand it, submitting to governing authority means that if you choose to disobey a law, you accept the consequences.

I heard a good sermon on Shadrach, Meshack, and Abednego. They disobeyed Nebuchadnezzar's law telling them to bow down to the statue, but they spoke to the king respectfully and used polite terms while refusing to obey. Then they accepted their sentence. They didn't struggle against it, cruel and unjust as it was, and God protected them. Ditto Daniel, who broke the law by choosing to pray after prayer had been outlawed, then accepted being condemned to the lions' den. He was also still respectful to the king who condemned him there.

That applies when worldly laws oppose God's law. God's law must be obeyed, and the worldly law disobeyed, if ever there is any contradiction. I don't know about any car modification being against God's law. If you were forced to put some anti-Christian sticker on it, or you wouldn't be allowed to drive it, that would be a different story.

Can you offer to help pay for the modification? If the modification isn't happening, then if your conscience is bothering you, your only recourse is not to drive the car. Because sin is more about the intent than the action itself. If you believe an action to be a sin, and you do it anyway, then even if it wasn't a sin in the first place, it becomes one when you do it believing it is. Romans 14:23.

 

[tuliplane]

It depends on exactly which law it is that is being contemplated for refusal ...

A law that requires a person to verbally extol Caesar as Lord above all Lords isn't a law we must follow. However, stopping at a stop sign or refraining from driving a car that has disruptive modifications probably should be followed.

Tickets for Noisy Car Mods: Muffler Deletes, Loud Exhaust, and Loud Music

How states regulate noisy vehicles and vehicle exhaust systems that don't meet emissions standards.

www.drivinglaws.org

It's not having a front plate which is required in this state (other states do not require this)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's not having a front plate which is required in this state (other states do not require this)

Being that the 'law' in question in this case is somewhat of a minor one, and being that the law itself isn't the product of so-called common legal sense being that not all states require a front tag, ......................... flip a coin !!! It'd be the right answer either way. Take the fine or don't take the fine.

Which States Require a Front License Plate?

States differ in their license plate laws and regulations, some states allow a single license plate while others require two. This article explains reasonings for both.

www.autolist.com

 

[tuliplane]

Being that the 'law' in question in this case is somewhat of a minor one, and being that the law itself isn't the product of so-called common legal sense being that not all states require a front tag, ......................... flip a coin !!! It'd be the right answer either way. Take the fine or don't take the fine.

Which States Require a Front License Plate?

States differ in their license plate laws and regulations, some states allow a single license plate while others require two. This article explains reasonings for both.

www.autolist.com

So, it wouldn't be a biblical violation? I know it might sound silly...I just am trying to figure out if these passages mean God wants us to obey all laws that aren't in opposition to Him. Also wondering if He was speaking to me through the Word since I read that 1 Peter verse after heavily thinking and praying about it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So, it wouldn't be a biblical violation? I know it might sound silly...I just am trying to figure out if these passages mean God wants us to obey all laws that aren't in opposition to Him. Also wondering if He was speaking to me through the Word since I read that 1 Peter verse after heavily thinking and praying about it.

No, I don't think driving a car without a front license plate is a 'biblical violation.' We have to look at the full context as it was constructed in the cultural mileau of its time, and when Paul was writing Romans 13, he had a specific legal reference --- the authoritarian Roman one. Obviously, from all we see in the Book of Acts, not every jot and tittle of the local laws or social expectations were complied with, or even could be ... ....

In the case of a front license plate, get it if you can, but if you can't, it's obvious the law in question here isn't one that all Americans deem to be an important one for the sake of social peace. Tax money maybe. So, if the tag is really about a certain state getting its due 'tax,' then I guess "pay to Caesar what is Caesar's"

But I don't think that on this one you've sinned before God if you'd rather pay the fine. Either way, the Caesar can get his money.

 

[tuliplane]

Thanks; this is helpful. I'll look at Acts too. What specific examples can you remember in there? Thanks again!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thanks; this is helpful. I'll look at Acts too. What specific examples can you remember in there? Thanks again!

Straight off, I'd refer you to the one in Acts chapters 4 and 5. Sure, the 'authorities' in those chapters weren't Roman, but for the social context in which they took place, the Apostles were still going up against 'civil authority.' They reasoned that they had to disobey.

Another example might be drawn from what Paul and Silas experienced in Philippi in relation to the financial and legal disturbance that ensued after Paul exorcised a demom from a young girl (Acts 16:16-24). There was also that incidence in Ephesus (Acts 19:21-41) which was also related to financial customs among the Greeks/Romans, not too dissimilar from the one in Philippi.

However, as is mentioned by Jesus and Peter, paying taxes (or I suppose, also having a second car tag and/or paying title fees), is something God expects us to do and to attend to. Having a second car tag, if it's related to 'taxes,' would fall into this category.

At the same time, I live in a state OF THE SAME NATION where only one car tag is required, and I'm at pains to really see the ethical and moral "need" for a second one. If you're going to hold a residence in a state that requires two tags, I guess you can spare yourself some trouble and get one: but at the same time I don't think not getting one is a sin.