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Understanding Kabbalah

Higher Truth

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Simchat:

1) Orthodox Rabbis have pointed out, just as our dear friend Hix has done, that Kabbalah is much more ancient than the 13th century.

HT:

Since Hix lists their age as eighteen, they probably have not studied kabbalah under the supervision of a rabbi as you state needs to be done to have knowledge and understanding.

As I pointed out as well:

"and then turn around and use a system that came into the culture initially during the babylonian captivity, and then at a later time became a written system."


Simchat:

So when was Kabbalah formed? You keep changing your story! Was it during Babylonian captivity? Was it during the 13th century? which was it?


HT:

As stated above, the exposure initially came to the Jews during the captivity, and the sephardics in Spain came up with a defined written system.

Simchat:

Your refusal to seek guidance and instruction on this matter from an Orthodox Jew only compounds the ignorance you post.

HT:

Should I seek out a Lubavitcher, who certainly would be considered orthodox. Through the use of kabbalah as a form of scriptural interpretation, they determined that their rebbe was the Messiah.They were very disillusioned when he did not return. There is a history of this occuring.


Simchat:

2) Once again you are bordering awefully close to antisemitism.

HT:

Let's not use the anti-semitism card in place of scholarship. This is a ludicrous accusation, as some of my family members are known as Reuven and Levi, and a host of others. Is the statement below not true?

"They were written by men that were not believers in the Messiah."
 
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simchat_torah

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Since Hix lists their age as eighteen, they probably have not studied kabbalah under the supervision of a rabbi as you state needs to be done to have knowledge and understanding.

The 40 year old age requirement has since been done away with.

Through the use of kabbalah as a form of scriptural interpretation, they determined that their rebbe was the Messiah.
I have read many articles and discussed with Lubavitcher Rabbis the idea of the Great Baal Shem Tov as Messiah, and not a single one of them used Kabbalah as a proof. I've never seen that once.
They interject that he fulfilled various scriptures.

Should I seek out a Lubavitcher, who certainly would be considered orthodox.
;)
This would be a start! ;)


Let's not use the anti-semitism card in place of scholarship.
Well, you attempted to use the idea that since they have a false messiah we can toss scholarship out the window.

However, I'm not proposing the idea we replace antisemetic rhetoric with scholarship. I was both pointing out a false proof and protecting the Jewish community at the same time.

Is the statement below not true?

"They were written by men that were not believers in the Messiah."
Yes, the statement is true, but does that make them evil?

When one assumes evil where others don't accept the messiah, they are entering antisemitism.

This is what Hitler did, this is what you would suppose we should do.

I'm sorry, but I won't bite.
Shalom,
Yafet.
 
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Higher Truth

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Yes, the statement is true, but does that make them evil?

HT:

I have never stated that my un-believing Jewish brothers and sisters are evil. Many of my closest friends are un-believing Jews, and one is even a former Lubavitcher. I am stating that by using this system to interpret scripture, the outcome is incorrect. Many could end up following a false messiah due to this.
 
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LibertyChic

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simchat_torah said:
Actually Justin, you've been baited. Reformed Baptist, HT, and myself were all in a conspiracy together just to get you to make the above statement.

Now you owe me 5 bucks.

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!! You made me snort on that one!! ^_^
 
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simchat_torah

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Ok, let's change the course of this discussion a bit...

Y'shua and Sha'ul quoted from Rabbinical sources that did not accept Y'shua as HaMoshiach... not only did they quote from these sources, but even used their methods of interpretting scripture.

How do you deal with this Higher Truth?

Shalom ;)
Yafet.
 
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Higher Truth

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Y'shua and Sha'ul quoted from Rabbinical sources that did not accept Y'shua as HaMoshiach... not only did they quote from these sources, but even used their methods of interpretting scripture.

How do you deal with this Higher Truth?

HT:

Judaism today, and Judaism of the first century differ from each other. The kippa for example, is a latter addition. Messiah and the apostles most probably wore tallit in the temple.This is most likely what Paul was holding as the crowd stoned Steven. If you want to discuss these things, you need to be a little more specific. Are you referring to talmud? We all know who Pauls mentor was initially, but he finished his schooling under the tutelege of the Holy Spirit and the Messiah. Did Messiah and the apostles use PaRDeS to interpret Scripture? This you would need to prove, because it would go against what Scripture actually teaches us.
 
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simchat_torah

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Did Messiah and the apostles use PaRDeS to interpret Scripture? This you would need to prove, because it would go against what Scripture actually teaches us.


Actually, scripture does not give us an answer on how to interpret itself.

shalom,
yafet.
 
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