Undecided

[jada]

Hi folks,
I was divorced, and am now with a new partner.
I know this is not the ethics part of the site, etc. but just for the record, everything I have going on in my life is exhaustively Biblical, so please - spare me the legal ramblings about my change in relationship. Thanks.

Anyhow, I felt I needed to say that cause, like many people I have heard from who have chosen a child free lifestyle, there can be some heavy backlash from those who believe marriage is for the sake of birthin' babies.

So, I am hoping to lay out some of my concerns. While DH and I were courting, we talked about children - maybe having them biologicly, maybe not. But I said I want to be a parent, even if it means not having children through pregnancy. My DH could go either way he said, leaning towards not having kids. He said that he had not considered having kids until this point in his life, so was open to the idea.

Well, we just celebrated our one year anniversary. And I have been diagnosed with severe endometriosis. 2 surgeries later, and a plethora of pain management drugs, I am doubtful that I can have kids if I stay using the pain meds. The pain is extreme without meds, so its not really just a matter of "putting up with it", and there are some abnormalities from scar tissue that could make it tough to conceive or carry. Not to mention, I am in my late 30's and he turned 40 this year.

So, I am really concerned that if we are going to do this, that we have kids soon, even if it is to adopt, cause I don't want to be pushing 70 and still dealing with HS age kids. But DH wants to wait... maybe wait indefinitely.

While praying about this and talking amongst ourselves, I am getting crap from all sides about how I should be expecting "the blessing" and "the healing" of children, and when I try to talk about the concerns, I am treated like I am selfish, without faith, and well, frankly, the worst is when people stop talking to me and I am not sure why, but I can guess... Not to mention, most of my church's "women's ministries" focus around children: activities for children, or activities for single/child-less women to help the mothers. As though somehow, that is all I have to offer/be concerned with in my life.

So are there any people out there experiencing this kind of stuff? Cause DH doesn't get the same crap I do as a woman, and it is really lonely out here on the fringe. I could use some encouragement.
Thanks.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Firstly, Nobody here is going to slam you for divorcing and remarrying, so the don't judge me was unnecessary.

Secondly, if you want to adopt, you should probably only do so if your husband is one board. Parenting is something a couple does together, it's not a hobby your can work on out in the garage.

Don't worry, you're not the only one here who gets a lot of crap for not having kids. And unfortunately, from what I've seen, you'll keep getting crap until you have at least x > 8 kids. If you have 0, you're selfish for not even having 1, if you have 1, you're selfish for not having 2.

Also, it might be an insecurity thing. Maybe they're worried you're having more fun than they are, since you don't have children to worry about.

And no, it's not fair that only women get asked this sort of question, and not men. But unfortunately that's just the way it is, so it seems.

Anyway, welcome to the CF sub-form. The friendliest, least judgmental place on CF.

 

[snoochface]

Women get the brunt of crap like this. It's crazy-making. My first suggestion is to change your circle of confidants, because really none of this is anyone's business except yours and your husband's. No one outside of the two of you should be saying one word about your plans for having, or not having, children, your "blessings" or "healings" or whatever.

Seriously, don't share these intimate details and concerns with people who are going to chastise you and make you feel like you are less than a worthy Christian in some way. They are out of line, and it's not helpful to your struggle at all.

For what it's worth, my sister was 54 when she adopted her son. I thought this was really, really old to be bringing a newborn into the home, especially considering that her husband was around 60. I met my nephew for the first time a couple weeks ago (he is 2 and 1/2) and both parents seem really tired, but it's a happy and healthy home. The kid is smart and precocious, and my sister and BIL are proud to have their dream of having a child fulfilled when they never thought it would be possible.

I understand completely what you mean about not wanting to be 70 and dealing with high school issues. I worry about that with my sister and nephew too. But, it's been done in the past, and while it's a headache you wouldn't be expecting at that stage in your life, there are a lot of twists and turns that life throws at you that could cause a similar situation. I'm thinking of people whose kids get pregnant in high school or something, and the parents (grandparents of the kid) end up raising the child. Or parents who have a developmentally challenged child that they have to care for well into adulthood.

The biggest thing, though, is that you and your husband are on the same page with wanting, or not wanting, kids. If either of you really doesn't want one, my personal opinion is that you'd be doing the child a disservice by bringing it into the world to be raised by a parent who didn't want him/her.

So my advice is to do a lot of talking - with your husband, not with the judgmental church ladies - and maybe even go into a brief bit of focused marriage counseling to deal with this issue if needed.

 

[jada]

"Firstly, Nobody here is going to slam you for divorcing and remarrying, so the don't judge me was unnecessary."

Perhaps on this forum. However I have been on other places on ChrForums where I have been unfairly questioned. But that is great if there is no need to worry here.

"Secondly, if you want to adopt, you should probably only do so if your husband is one board. Parenting is something a couple does together, it's not a hobby your can work on out in the garage."

Yeah, I agree. Which is why I spent allot of time talking with DH about this before marriage. I even asked him to come to an initial foster care training, so he could get a sense of what we might encounter if we tried to adopt after marriage, cause it was that important to me. He said he was OK with it, even adoption, so we got married. Now it seems he was not sure in the first place.

Regardless of how this all pans out after the fact, I agree - he needs to be on board or it's a "no" for kids. But it is very painful none the less to think that I can't make the choice for myself anymore - short of divorce - but that would be unbiblical and not what I would want anyway. There is life (and a pretty good quality of life from what I hear) without kids. It's just not what I had envisioned.

Part of my struggle with letting go of the "having kids thing" is that I am very gifted at working with abused/neglected and emotionally disabled kids. It would seem a shame that I would have to keep acting as a mentor or a friend to these bio-families who eventually put down the trump card of "you don't understand, it's different when their your own" or (my favorite), "I can do what I want with my own kids". I'm sort of abbreviating, but it gets to be infuriating sometimes when I know a kid needs something I can't give to to them simply because I am not the parent.

My education and profession is not in the realm of child care or teaching, so I also battle the "creep-dar" questions when I show interest in caring about kids. I have had to submit to a thousand background checks (submitted my fingerprints at least twice this year) and I get pretty tired of that too (I am squeaky clean btw). It's like parents assume that I would not want to work around kids unless they are my own, I have my own and work with kids not my own as part of "the team", or I suffer from low self-esteem or some other freakish motivation. It has been demoralizing at times to be held accountable for unearned suspicion.

"Don't worry, you're not the only one here who gets a lot of crap for not having kids. And unfortunately, from what I've seen, you'll keep getting crap until you have at least x > 8 kids. If you have 0, you're selfish for not even having 1, if you have 1, you're selfish for not having 2."

Yeah. I've already been ignored by both of my brothers who have kids (one has 4 and counting. The other stopped at 2). When I ask why they haven't called, missed my bday or whatever, they tell me it's cause they have to take care of their kids.

And then they turn around and accuse me of selfishness, for not coming out to see them cause it is "so much easier for me" cause I don't have kids. i was actually accused of ignoring them! Up until recently, I have told them that I have not had a car, public transit would take 4 hours one way, and frankly, I would plan to come to see them now that I have a car if I knew a good time to do so once in awhile? I've also been in debilitating pain, suffered through 2 surgeries, but they ignore that too, so?

I have also been asked why I don't offer to babysit more. I'm sorry, was that my job to offer??? And then I remember, oh, yeah. I did offer. And you were not listening or at least don't take me up on the offer becauuuuse I don't have kids and so you assume I can't take care of four or six of them. (for the record, I have handled up to 20 kids with emotional disabilities on my own - thank you. My nephews and nieces are not that tough. Actually, I think they are allot of fun).

I was told that I am the less favorite auntie cause I don't buy them lots of presents at holidays and bdays. There are 9 of them and two of us. Why am I expected to buy that much stuff? They don't give us gifts? So what are you teaching my nieces and nephews anyway? That I am only here to meet their needs? And when you don't teach them to reciprocate when I do come and make a fuss about their bdays, are you teaching them that I am expendable?

Then on holidays, I am expected to come to their house(s) cause it is too hard to get all the kids into that giant luxury minivan complete with movie player, self closing doors, auto locks, that also happens to be covered in snot, fruit snacks and peanut butter crackers. I've done it before on my own. It can be done. They do it every time they want to go to the mall twice a week, so what's the big deal?

"Also, it might be an insecurity thing. Maybe they're worried you're having more fun than they are, since you don't have children to worry about."

Maybe. I don't really feel like anyone envies my lot in life. What I get more often is contempt masquerading as unwanted pity. I'm not rabid to have children, I can see the benefit of making new plans with my life that does not include parenting. But this contempt BS is what makes me want to run away and live on a mountaintop somewhere. Alone. And "selfishly" take care of myself.

"And no, it's not fair that only women get asked this sort of question, and not men. But unfortunately that's just the way it is, so it seems."

Yeah. I am not really talking to DH right now about some of the meaner/insensitive things people have said cause he says it stresses him out. With all the stuff we have gone through in our first year of marriage (move, bought a house, lots of medical problems, new marriage stuff, less money, job concerns), I don't want to pile on more - sometimes it's hard to know what to share and what to keep to myself. This kids thing is really upsetting me, but I want to work through some of my feelings first before coming back to the topic with him. And there are some things he just won't get anyway, cause of gender differences. But now I'm talking in circles...

Thank you for the welcome.
I hope I am not coming off as too whiny, cause I'm not feeling that at all. My hope is to work out this stuff quietly, so I don't make a big stink with my friends and family who just don't understand what kind of support I need right now.

So thanks for being here.

 

[127.0.0.1]

Perhaps on this forum. However I have been on other places on ChrForums where I have been unfairly questioned. But that is great if there is no need to worry here.

That's because this is the coolest sub-forum on CF. We have an all-time record low for trolling, flaming, arguing...etc. Because pretty much everyone here is on the same page.




Regarding your family, sounds to me like they're just class 3 jerks. Don't let them get to you. I mean, the fact that they have such lame excuses, just screams that they just don't care and really, who wants to get a b-card from somebody who doesn't care.

As for kids, I think you could probably find a happy medium. I don't recall if you said you teach Sunday School, but maybe it's something you could pick up.

 

[jada]

As for kids, I think you could probably find a happy medium. I don't recall if you said you teach Sunday School, but maybe it's something you could pick up.

I'm a good mentor, but not really a "teacher" . And I cuss, which hasn't made me "Sunday School" fodder.

But your saying the same thing as DH: maybe I could make it my job to work with kids or something? I thought about it, but jobs aimed at kids don't pay well, unless your a pediatrition, which I am not anywhere near being a dr.

I thought maybe if I just forget about the whole kids thing for awhile, I could get some persective. Which I thought would be easy, but I am so stupid sometimes.

I started a re-training program to flesh out my BA in Communications by working on a certificate in Emergency Telecommunication. The field is dominated by women (which is unusual in the emergency career field), high stress, and highly technical.

I thought hey - this is a place where professionalism is everything. But smack in the middle of every course, someone tells us again and again how it will ruin our families to be part of this career. Lots of discussion about how it ruins holidays, not being home after school, ruins spouse relationships because the spouse is left to take care of the house and kids on their own, stress from the crap that goes down on the job that comes home with you ... But I don't have those problems. No kids, the spouse likes having his own space, and I am stress/risk tolerant with good emotional boundaries.

You might think: why that's perfect! In some ways it is. I enjoy the work and seem to be idealy suited for it. However, I have not told many people I am getting training in this. Mainly, because the first things I have heard out of people's mouths is not,"Wow! What interesting work!", it's, "Well, what about kids? And family? You can't do that! What does DH think of this? You can't do that and be a good mom!"
Which isn't true - there are lots of parents in this field who have balanced both parenthood and career. Sadistic, yes, but possible.
I mean - if you can coordinate a medical response to a 3 car pileup with fatalities, an officer traffic stop, a suicidal caller and a domestic violence dispatch at the same time, you could pretty much deal with the PTA bakesale, homework, bedtimes/diaper/truant child/drug dabbling/sex issues. Sheesh, you could probably stand in for freakin' She-Ra: Princess of Power in the Masters of the Universe.

Note, however, that She-Ra was also childfree: so she wouldn't impress the breeders either, so maybe that is a bad example... .

It seems like I can't win. So I have been cutting back on church activities - no bible study now, and late to service/early to leave on Sundays. I also gave an announcement to my church body that I will not be attending church during the holiday maddness months. This is for many reasons, but one is that it's so much about kids: what to get the kids, help the starving/beaten/forgotten kids (which I do all year, but apparently some people do this only once a year...), "remembering" the kids, kids recitals and cute kid moments at the pulpit. Not my cup of tea.

DH caught on that I am really struggling with the kids thing - but we haven't talked much. He tentatively suggested that we could try a fertility clinic once he got a better job, but I told him long ago, no fertility treatments. I'm not that desperate and can get the hint when God says "no". I thought it was sort of weird for him to suggest that, cause I know he would be more relieved to never have kids. I feel like I really can't talk to him now - if he's feeling that much pressure to "try" against his better judgement "for my sake".

Anyway, I feel like a hermit now.

My dr. told me he thought I should see a psychologist cause of all the trauma over the last year with the surgeries, physical pain and my health. I think an unspoken part of it is so I can talk to someone about this kid thing - at least talk to anyone else but him. He told me a week ago that having kids would be very difficult for me physically. Which I took as a "sorry sister - no kids". But DH refuses to accept this. I think he's just sad for me. I don't think we are anywhere near on the same page, and I am not sure he can get on the same page either. Not having kids seems to be rougher on me as a woman, and I am not sure what to do about it.

 

[Mrs. Luther073082]

All I have to say is just