I think you need to understand what the removal of those men did..
Ever hear of the butterfly effect?
Germany was done.. before the "A" bomb.
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I think you need to understand what the removal of those men did..yes, very close to succeeding in killing those men trapped at the time, or taking them prisoner. You just don't know that that event made the difference, the war may have taken longer but you don't know. Also, once the US had the A-bomb, it was over for both Germany and Japan, regardless of anything else really.
Not to dwell on this too much but the point was that even if those men had been killed, Germany would still have lost. It wasn't the make or break deal its made out.I think you need to understand what the removal of those men did..
Ever hear of the butterfly effect?
Germany was done.. before the "A" bomb.
A world with 2 billion less people would be a very depopulated world, economies would collapse, governments around the world would be in turmoil. It would take time for someone to come to power and then fix all this. Even longer for a world govt etc.Yes, that's what a few thousand people can do.
Now.. think about the ramifications of 2 billion people vanishing.. every part of the globe at the same instant.. Gone...
Just the hysteria alone due to this event.. not to mention what people do in times like that.. Looting rioting, panic.... media trying to explain it..
One cop.. just one cop.. and it caused that... Now.. even if 1 billion vanish?
I understand..Well, race relations have been a contentious issue in the US for a LONG time, whatever is happening and wherever these protests and BLM etc lead to, it has not been fast. It has taken generations in fact to lay the groundwork etc.
"Not to dwell on this" ..... Good idea.. neither of us is convincing the other...Not to dwell on this too much but the point was that even if those men had been killed, Germany would still have lost. It wasn't the make or break deal its made out.
Read my post #199
Jesus' human body turned to dust. As do all physical bodies, so yes, we will not agree on the fact that flesh and blood can enter heaven. You claim it can. Paul says it does not, 1 Corinthians 15:48-58.If you believe that Jesus is still dead and rotting in the ground, then we have a much bigger problem on our hands than the silly rapture nonsense.
-CryptoLutheran
"Islamophobia, homophobia, lgbtq, women's liberation, white supremacist, "I understand..
Do you not think that Satan has laid the groundwork through antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, lgbtq, women's liberation, white supremacist, capabilities of cashless societies, internet and social media, evolution, corruption in the presentation of history, dissension in the church, drugs and government involvement, fabrication of beings on other planets and the whole alien seeding concept, genetic engineering in food, animals and people, the explosion of knowledge and technology, the movie and television shows and movie concepts of super hero's, other life forms, supernatural and paranormal....
I mean... really, he has had 2000 years since Christ's death and resurrection... to understand that he is doomed... he is one of the most intelligent created beings in the universe..if not THE most intelligent created being in the universe..
Oh.. he's laid the groundwork... no worries there.
That's not even considering the things that we don't even know about.
I'm very sorry that we disagree.."Islamophobia, homophobia, lgbtq, women's liberation, white supremacist, "
these are all pretty recent.
All these will be forgotten about when people are trying to get the lives back on track after jobs, companies, customers, officials, not to mention friends and family disappear
I do not think that the Church has no effect but neither do i think that the day after a rapture downtown new york city will be like a ghostbusters movie (with demons of course instead of powder puff men or whatever)I'm very sorry that we disagree..
But, if you don't think that the presence of the church.. the body of Christ and the Holy Spirit.. being on this earth.. has any affect on the world...
Then......We are pathetic.
="Edstano, post: 75219177, member: 429473"](Rev. 3:10). "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently. I will also KEEP YOU FROM THE HOUR OF TRIAL that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on earth."
Julie B67 said,
The word "keep" in this verse is Greek 5083 tereo -means to guard (from loss or injury) over by keeping an eye on. If these were raptured people, God would not need to do so.
My reply, OK, If the word "Keep" means to guard per Greek, then explain how will God guard us from being beheaded Rev.20:4, ---- 1/3 of the waters became wormwood and many people died Rev 8:11, ----1/3 of the sea became blood Rev.8:9, ---- Locusts came upon the earth with the power of Scorpions to hurt the people for five months Rev.9:10, -----people were scorched by the heat of the Sun Rev. 16:9? Remember there will be millions of people that will need to be guarded.
JulieB67 said, "The wedding takes place in here on earth after the tribulation."
My reply, Rev.19, "After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude IN HEAVEN shouting: Hallelujah" They were cheering the condemnation of the great prostitute. The heavenly scene continues in verse 6-7 "Hallelujah for our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the WEDDING OF THE LAMB has come, and His bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean , was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)
The above scene takes place in heaven and not on earth.
I need help explaining how to post quotes.
That is the results of having the Church and the Holy Spirit on this earth.. Remove it and there is no hope.
Jesus' human body turned to dust.
I am not sure why this would prevent a rapture of living people?Uh, I thought everyone here was in agreement that Jesus rose from the dead, a physical, bodily resurrection that could be touched and eat, and that that was what our bodies would be like, physical and tangible, but improved and immortal and able to do things that our current bodies cannot.
Without the resurrection of Jesus our faith has no foundation! The Resurrection is EVERYTHING.
1 Corinthians 15:13-18
I don't even know what else to say.
Where is any one's dust? Lots of humans are cremated. The physical body of Jesus was flesh and blood. It turned back to dust. How is that any different than teaching about an antichrist and one world government? Even in Roman times, the Romans were not the only power on earth. People were very much aware of other rulers and earthly kingdoms.What? When? Where is it?
I beg to differ. Christ's body was transformed... Just like ours will be, instantly..
Only those that die and are put in a grave and it does not leave.. .those will turn to dust..
Where is His dust?
I decided to watch the first video just to see what this man has to say. No offense (honestly!) but I didn't like how he talked about 1st Thessalonians 4:16 and 17 and then totally skipped going into chapter 5 (manuscripts didn't have chapters) where Paul is continuing the subject and calls the time that Christ returns -"the day of the Lord" and then skipped verses in 2nd Thess that were extremely important to the timing.
At the 31 50: mark he goes into the argument of the "imminent return of Christ" and said nothing needed to happen before our gathering back to Christ. He talked about how the Thessalonians had stopped working and had to be exhorted because they thought Christ would return at any time.
It is true that the Thessalonians were confused and thought Christ would return at any moment and so Paul wrote these verses which he skipped,
II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"
II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."
II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
He posted 2nd Thess 3:10 which was a totally different subject by then.
Our gathering back to Christ will not happen until these events happen. Christ taught the same thing in the gospels.
I'm very weary of people that pull out scriptures but we don't get the context by reading before and after those scriptures. When you do that, you are in danger of losing context. We wouldn't read any other book that way and the bible is no different. We have to read chapter by chapter and verse by verse.
Yes, we see them put in a coffin, the lid closed and they are either put in the ground or burned.. The ashes are given to the family or put in a grave site..Where is any one's dust? Lots of humans are cremated.
The physical body of Jesus was flesh and blood. It turned back to dust. How is that any different than teaching about an antichrist and one world government?
The verses in 2 Thess chpt 2 you quote are about the 2nd coming of Christ
With regard to 2nd Thess 3:10, it's about not being idle and the the video is just saying that one possible motivation for being idle is because a person may have a mistaken belief that His return is imminent and they stop their work.
So you subscribe to the church-age theory of interpretation.
May I ask, why? On what hermeneutical and exegetical grounds do you base this interpretation on?
Doesn't it make far more sense that St. John who says he's writing to the seven churches which are in Asia is, in fact, writing to the seven churches which are in Asia? And that the words spoken to the Church in Philadelphia is very much to them?
And why do you think Philadelphia represents the modern church? Why not one of the other churches to whom the Apocalypse was written?
It seems to me that a lot of assumptions are being made without any real exegesis being done with the text.
He's been coming soon for two thousand years, and it may be another two thousand.
What we have are God's promises to us through the Gospel, that we belong to Jesus Christ. And so no matter what this world throws at us, we have our salvation, our security, our confidence by the grace of God, through faith, in Jesus Christ who suffered, was crucified, dead, buried, rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and is coming again on the Last Day as judge of the living and the dead.
Glory to God, the day is coming when the dead shall rise, death shall be no more, and God will make all things new. And there will be life everlasting in the World to Come. Even unto the ages of ages.
That's the Christian hope.
The whole Dispensationalist enterprise is not only terrible eschatology, not only does it play fast and loose with the Scriptures without any care or concern about their context, it--at its core--is another (and therefore false) gospel. And a false gospel is no gospel at all. Indeed, the Apostle calls it anathema.
-CryptoLutheran
I am not sure why this would prevent a rapture of living people?
Read the Gospel accounts of the Resurrection. Jesus had a body that could not be touched. After his ascension later that day, Jesus did have a body that could be touched. Those in Paradise do not have a flesh and blood body, but they do have a changed body. They had a changed body in sheol. What that body was like, we do not know. It may not have any feelings, or need any food. There may be food in Paradise, who knows? When Jesus died on the Cross, he opened Paradise and all those in sheol were taken to Paradise. They changed locations. All the church in Paradise and any who go there on a daily basis, are waiting until the rapture for the church to be completely restored in glorified bodies.
Some teach the restoration will not be a rapture. Some just live on earth and never go to Paradise. And some humans tell God how things will work out from their point of view. They think eventually heaven will come to earth.
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