Uncertain

[tansy]

Hi---not sure if I should post this here----but I need someone to explain exactly how evolution is supposed to have happened as I am very befogged about the whole matter. It was never taught or explained as such in school. I do know that ideas on evolution have changed somewhat since darwin.
Anyway, the thing is I always believed that God created directly as it were (as opposed to using or directing evolution), but then discovered that most Christians believe in evolution. The problem is that I have problems with evolution as I can't fit it in with the First and Last Adam thing amongst other things. On the other hand I can see possible problems with Creationism---not necessarily unanswerable, but still puzzling.
Is there any way one can accomodate theistic evolution with the message of the Bible? It is a good thing that I actually became a Christian before these matters came to the forefront of my thinking, because otherwise I might have found the problems insurmountable. As it is, although I am bewildered, I am still convinced of God, having come to know Him beforehand. One can see why people might have difficulty believing.

 

[Mallon]

Welcome to the forum, tansy. It's always refreshing to see someone so open-minded around here.

Is there any way one can accomodate theistic evolution with the message of the Bible?

Interesting use of words. One of the key hermeneutical principles I've come to grasp as a theistic evolutionist (I prefer evolutionary creationist) is that of "accommodationism". This is the idea that God accommodated his message to His immediate Hebrew audience using words and ideas they could understand. He did not supercede their understanding, but inspired them with motifs, language, and even mythologies they would have been familiar with in an ancient Near Eastern context (much as a father would his children). This approach explains not only the scientific discrepancies found in the Bible (e.g., solid firmament, geocentrism, preformatism, etc.), but also accounts for the similarities between Mesopotamian cosmology (e.g., Enuma Elish) the biblical cosmology. The upshot of all this, of course, is that reading the Bible for scientific or historical insight is missing the forest for the trees.

There's an excellent essay elaborating on much of what I've just said here:
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dlamoure/3EvoCr.htm

And an equally useful and interactive blog for evolutionary creationists here:
http://evanevodialogue.blogspot.com/

I hope you'll stick around and ask any questions you might have about the relationship between evolution and the Bible. Many of us here are working through the same questions ourselves.

 

[gluadys]

Hi---not sure if I should post this here----but I need someone to explain exactly how evolution is supposed to have happened as I am very befogged about the whole matter. It was never taught or explained as such in school. I do know that ideas on evolution have changed somewhat since darwin.

A good place to get basic information on evolution is this:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/

Anyway, the thing is I always believed that God created directly as it were (as opposed to using or directing evolution), but then discovered that most Christians believe in evolution. The problem is that I have problems with evolution as I can't fit it in with the First and Last Adam thing amongst other things. On the other hand I can see possible problems with Creationism---not necessarily unanswerable, but still puzzling.
Is there any way one can accomodate theistic evolution with the message of the Bible? It is a good thing that I actually became a Christian before these matters came to the forefront of my thinking, because otherwise I might have found the problems insurmountable. As it is, although I am bewildered, I am still convinced of God, having come to know Him beforehand. One can see why people might have difficulty believing.

Yes, this is really the sticking point. How can a person who accepts evolution also be a Christian and take the bible seriously as spiritual truth?

The links Mallon gave you will be useful on this.

 

[tansy]

Thank you very much Mallon and Gluadys for your replies. I will look up the links you gave me when I have a little more time. Also Ireally now need to go to sleep as it is gone four in the morning, WHAT am I doing still up at this hour!!!

 

[USincognito]

Hi---not sure if I should post this here----but I need someone to explain exactly how evolution is supposed to have happened as I am very befogged about the whole matter. It was never taught or explained as such in school. I do know that ideas on evolution have changed somewhat since darwin.

An overview of evolution (and some abiogenesis) from a purely scientific perspective in a 6:40 package (the details are in gluadys' link).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q55z6EsL8M

 

[juvenissun]

Hi---not sure if I should post this here----but I need someone to explain exactly how evolution is supposed to have happened as I am very befogged about the whole matter. It was never taught or explained as such in school. I do know that ideas on evolution have changed somewhat since darwin.
Anyway, the thing is I always believed that God created directly as it were (as opposed to using or directing evolution), but then discovered that most Christians believe in evolution. The problem is that I have problems with evolution as I can't fit it in with the First and Last Adam thing amongst other things. On the other hand I can see possible problems with Creationism---not necessarily unanswerable, but still puzzling.

Evolution has a lot of plausible systematic physical "evidences" that demand some background knowledge to "understand". In most cases, they are arguments given by and aimed at professionals. These illustrations usually and easily intimidate, or convince, or deceive people. On the other side, evidences for creation are so far scattered, normal and common. They are explanations designed for general public and are "apparently" shallow. So they are easy to understand, but can also be easily refuted almost by anyone. Just like we breath air, but very few will use it as an evidence for creation, until one discovered some life forms breath gases that are poison to us, or some lives do not "breath" at all.

So, my advice to you is NOT to look at those "profound" and impressive evidences of evolution before you get enough knowledge to evaluate them. But to investigate those shallow, easily understood evidences of creation a little bit more in detail. I guarantee you that the more you think/understand about them, the more you would feel that those flashy evidences of evolution are not any more impressive than simply evidences of creation. A good source which gives you a little bit this type of information on a daily basis is the Creation Moments

 

[gluadys]

Just like we breath air, but very few will use it as an evidence for creation, until one discovered some life forms breath gases that are poison to us, or some lives do not "breath" at all.

Ever hear of anaerobic respiration?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_respiration

So, my advice to you is NOT to look at those "profound" and impressive evidences of evolution before you get enough knowledge to evaluate them.

One gets the knowledge of how to evaluate them by studying them.

 

[vossler]

I need someone to explain exactly how evolution is supposed to have happened as I am very befogged about the whole matter. It was never taught or explained as such in school. I do know that ideas on evolution have changed somewhat since darwin.
Anyway, the thing is I always believed that God created directly as it were (as opposed to using or directing evolution), but then discovered that most Christians believe in evolution. The problem is that I have problems with evolution as I can't fit it in with the First and Last Adam thing amongst other things. On the other hand I can see possible problems with Creationism---not necessarily unanswerable, but still puzzling.

First of all I'd like to welcome you to this discussion, a discussion that I believe is foundational to how we see God and who He is. I will also come right out and tell you that I believe evolution to be the single greatest lie ever foisted upon the human race in the last 150 years. That statement alone will get many people here and in academia very upset with me and I understand why. However, I'm not here discuss this topic with those who support evolution. I've been a member here for four years and have had many of those discussions in the past. I come back only to help educate those who's minds have yet to be made up and are truly seeking the truth. If you are such a person I invite you to PM me and I will be more than happy to respond to every question you may have. I pray that even if you should choose not to do so, that you pray sincerely to God just what it is that He has said in His Word. May God Bless you in this most important endeavor.

Is there any way one can accomodate theistic evolution with the message of the Bible? It is a good thing that I actually became a Christian before these matters came to the forefront of my thinking, because otherwise I might have found the problems insurmountable. As it is, although I am bewildered, I am still convinced of God, having come to know Him beforehand. One can see why people might have difficulty believing.

Without a doubt you are blessed to have known Him before ever having known of evolution.