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Unbelievers...what happens when they die?

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LiberatedChick

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What do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? I've briefly heard of there being other views besides what seems to be the standard "if you don't believe, you're going to hell" view and I guess I'm curious about what other ideas people may have on this.

Please back up with bible verses where possible. :)
 

loriersea

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Rev 21.23-25: And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp in the Lamb. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. Its gates will never be shut by day--and there will be no night there.

Psa 139.8: If I ascend to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there.

I don't know what will happen to anyone after they die, but I do know that God is not going to abandon any of his creation. It is God's will, according to the Bible, that all be saved. Given eternity, why would we assume God will not be able to achieve his will?

If there is a hell, then God is there, and he will lure those in hell to him. If some are barred from heaven, even for a short time, they will not be barred from it forever.

Honestly, though, I think the strongest evidence for universalism is rational and experiential, not scriptural, although there is strong scriptural support for it. However, the idea of the vast majority of humanity being tortured for all eternity because they didn't accept a certain set of theological propositions is so completely repugnant that there is no way it can be true. I think our sense of the absolutely monstrousness of such an idea must pale in comparison to God's sense of the monstrousness of it. I imagine that, if God is pained by our thoughts and actions, nothing could pain God more than people ascribing the worst behavior imaginable to him.
 
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70judge

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the exact thing that happens to believers. you go to the grave. thats the end.

starelda said:
What do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? I've briefly heard of there being other views besides what seems to be the standard "if you don't believe, you're going to hell" view and I guess I'm curious about what other ideas people may have on this.

Please back up with bible verses where possible. :)
 
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LiberatedChick

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loriersea said:
However, the idea of the vast majority of humanity being tortured for all eternity because they didn't accept a certain set of theological propositions is so completely repugnant that there is no way it can be true.

*nods head* This is the conclusion I've now reached through further reading this afternoon. I thought I'd accepted that non-believers would go to hell...turns out I hadn't really *seriously* thought about what that meant until this week. Now I have...well I don't believe a loving God would send someone to a place of eternal torture, if such a place even exists.
 
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Rochir

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Tangnefedd said:
I am of the opinion that there are many ways to God and the hereafter will be populated by people of all faiths and none. I think it is probably very arrogant of Christians to think only they will be in heaven!

Ditto:amen:
 
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Soul Searcher

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starelda said:
What do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? I've briefly heard of there being other views besides what seems to be the standard "if you don't believe, you're going to hell" view and I guess I'm curious about what other ideas people may have on this.

Please back up with bible verses where possible. :)
I do not know exactly what happens to anyone when they die but I do believe that what you believe has little effect on it.
 
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Im_A

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starelda said:
What do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? I've briefly heard of there being other views besides what seems to be the standard "if you don't believe, you're going to hell" view and I guess I'm curious about what other ideas people may have on this.

Please back up with bible verses where possible. :)

personally, i find this a hard one to tackle. i believe in universal reconciliation. i believe hell is a place that we are purified with a metaphorical "fire". i believe there is a major translation issue with the meaning of eternal, forever, ages, and this is my major issue here.

the translation issue will conform our theology.

so in the end, i'm learning this is a mystery and we will all believe what we choose to believe and for whatever reason we choose to believe that. that will never change.
 
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Casstranquility

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tattedsaint said:
i believe hell is a place that we are purified with a metaphorical "fire".

I only believe in hell as a state of mind-but if it were to be a real place, then I think a place of purification would make sense with something I recently heard.

In a Bible study, this verse was being discussed:

Romans 12:20

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals upon his head."

Someone said that fire was warm and welcome and wanted in those times-that "burning coals" would have been a gift, and that this verse was meant as symbolism of a gift. By "heaping burning coals upon his head" we would be teaching him about love, convicting him of his separation from love, and causing a change in him.
Perhaps then, if there was a hell of fire, it'd be the place where we realize we are separated from love, and are brought back to a place in our hearts where we can love again....purification.
That also still works as a state of mind. :D

-Cassie
 
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Cian

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I have no idea what will happen when I die. There are several possibilities such as, reincarnation, paradise, or I may just cease to exist. The one theory I refuse to consider is the traditional belief of hell as a place of eternal damnation.
 
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truthquest

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There have been many unbelievers who have had near-death experiences and were touched by God in the afterlife. They came back completely changed. I don't think that disbelief is powerful enough to separate us from God. God is big enough to handle our uncertainties. It really depends on the individual. I believe it would take a willful rejection of God in order to not be with him.

There is a Godless void, however, that people describe as hell. It is hell because it is absent of God's love. The ones that populate this void are those who willfully reject God or are so blinded by hate, guilt or self-loathing that they can't see God's love or they refuse it. This void is a self created state of unreality. Since God encompasses everything, the void is a divine paradox. It is actually an unreal state of mind that doesn't really exist except for in the self created realities of the people who occupy it. I believe it is temporary and those individuals will ascend when they are ready to accept that God loves them and forgives them for everything. God's love must be willingly received not enforced. It may take some people eons to see the light but they will in time. The Bible states that there will be a time when every tongue confesses God.

1Timothy 4:10 Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe.

"Especially those who believe" are the ones who choose God now. We only have to look at Jesus to know the nature of God. But everyone will be saved eventually if you truly believe the Bible.

Brian
 
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Tangnefedd

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I don't think near death experiences have anything to do with the after-life, much more to do with what is happening in the brain. Naturally an exprience like that is bound to concentraste the mind on one's mortality, though.


The ones that populate this void are those who willfully reject God or are so blinded by hate, guilt or self-loathing that they can't see God's love or they refuse it.

If you are an atheist, like my husband, then you don't believe there is anything to reject. As for unbelievers being blinded by hate, that is funny, some of the most hateful people are extreme fundies!!!
 
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truthquest

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Not to get too far off topic but you challenged the validity of NDEs. The skeptic has the burden of explaining why all the NDEs are spiritually consistant with each other. The spiritual information that people bring back does not contradict. If these thousands of people were making it up or their brain playing tricks on them then they would be bringing back spiritual information that directly contradicts. For example, NDEs say that God does not judge us, we judge ourselves. With religion being so influential then why aren't people coming back from an NDE with a vision of a punishing and wrathful God?

Also, I never said the unbelievers were blinded by hate. Quite the contrary. I said there were unbelievers who had an NDE and were touched by God. I'm trying to figure out how you twisted what I said into something I didn't say. When I talk about the void I'm talking about people who specifically have a hatred of God, themselves or others. Even believers can fit into that category.

Brian
 
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stumpjumper

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A better question might be "What happens when a Christian who believes that only "True Christians" get to heaven and finds Muslims, Hindus, and unbelievers all around?

Actually, I think that we will all be judged and our sins will be forgiven and forgotten. If you live most of your life in the dark, there might not be much left that can find peace in God. Of course, there are as many Christians walking in the dark as there are non-Christians and who can say whether our growth ends at death. There is always purgatory and room for further improvement.

I wonder how much more growth is in store for Pat Robertson.
 
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mark53

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One of Scott Peck's books. "In heaven as on Earth" is a good one to read.
He tells it as a story of a writer from his death. "from his firstconsciousness of the 'little green room' he finds himself in - the safe comfortable home that is his starting point - and his meeting with the guides who help him on his journey, this afterlife is a place of both of wonder and of familiarity. .... the journey through the afterlife can be easy or difficult, an adventure or a trial...."
 
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Multi-Elis

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Well, I don't think there is a clear anwer, but from my readings of NDE testamonies, here are some ideas:
Christian Andreason: (by "these souls" he is referring to people bound to this earth by their obssessions--basically in Hell, as NDEs describe it.)
Long story now made short ... I do not recommend that you follow the path of some of these Souls who become earthbound. When your time comes ... and the Light, the tunnel, Christ or your departed Loved ones come for you to take you home ... go with them and go to Heaven! That is where you really belong! Just know that when you Love God or Christ ... you will just naturally sense of feel where you need to go in Heaven and arrive in that place automatically.
Another reason I really want some of you to consider Christ, is if by some chance you feel like you get lost ... especially at the time of your physical death. You can call on Christ and he will come for you!
So he seems to suggest that those who call on God even at the last moment will go to heaven, not hell.

Howard storm was an atheist when he died,you can read the full story here of how he ended up in Hell, and how he called on Jesus after the fact...:
http://near-death.com/experiences/storm01.html

And George ritchie saw this in his NDE (though the accuracy of his interpretation is disputable) I have included the whole quote because I think it is very important for what I am trying to say:


We were moving again. First he had shown me a hellish realm, filled with beings trapped in some form of self-attention. Now behind, beyond, through all this I began to perceive a whole new realm. Enormous buildings stood in a beautiful sunny park that reminded me somewhat of a well-planned university. As we entered one of the buildings and doorways, the air was so hushed that I was actually startled to see people in the passageway.

I could not tell if they were men or women, old or young, for all were covered from head to foot in loose-flowing hooded cloaks which made me think vaguely of monks. But the atmosphere of the place was not at all as I imagined a monastery. It was more like some tremendous study center, humming with the excitement of great discovery. Everyone we passed in the wide halls and on the curving staircases seemed caught up in some all-engrossing activity; not many words were exchanged among them. And yet I sensed no unfriendliness between these beings, rather an aloofness of total concentration.

Whatever else these people might be, they appeared utterly and supremely self-forgetful - absorbed in some vast purpose beyond themselves. Through open doors I glimpsed at enormous rooms filled with complex equipment. In several of the rooms hooded figures bent over intricate charts and diagrams, or sat at the controls of elaborate consoles flickering with lights. Somehow I felt that some vast experiment was being pursued, perhaps dozens and dozens of such experiments.

And something more ... In spite of his obvious delight in the beings around us, I sensed that even this was not the ultimate, that he had far greater things to show me if only I could see.

And so I followed him into other buildings of this domain of thought. We entered a studio where music of a complexity I couldn't begin to follow was being composed and performed. There were complicated rhythms, tones not on a scale I knew.

"Why," I found myself thinking. "Bach is only the beginning!"

Next we walked through a library the size of the whole University of Richmond. I gazed into rooms lined floor to ceiling with documents on parchment, clay, leather, metal, paper.

"Here," the thought occurred to me, "are assembled the important books of the universe."

Immediately I knew this was impossible. How could books be written somewhere beyond the earth! But the thought persisted, although my mind rejected it.

The key works of the universe, the phrase kept recurring as we roamed the domed reading rooms crowded with silent scholars.

Then abruptly, at the door to one of the smaller rooms, almost an annex:

"Here is the central thought of this earth."

"Is this heaven, Lord Jesus?" I ventured.

The calm, the brightness, they were surely heaven-like! So was the absence of self, of clamoring ego.

"When these people were on earth did they grow beyond selfish desires?"

"They grew, and they have kept on growing."

The answer shone like sunlight in that intent and eager atmosphere. But if growth could continue, then this was not all. Then ... there must be something even these serene beings lacked. And suddenly I wondered if it was the same thing missing in the lower realm. Were these selfless seeking creatures also failing in some degree to see Jesus? Or perhaps, to see him for himself? Bits and hints of him they surely had; obviously it was the truth they were so single-mindedly pursuing. But what if even a thirst for truth could distract from the truth himself, standing here in their midst while they searched for him in books and test tubes ...

I didn't know. And next to his unutterable love, my own bewilderment, all the questions I wanted to ask, seemed incidental. Perhaps, I concluded at last, he cannot tell me more than I can see. Perhaps there is nothing in me yet that could understand an explanation.

It is this realm which removes forever the concept that we stop learning or progressing in knowledge when we die. I could call this realm the realm of research, or the mental realm or the realm of intellectual, scientific and religious knowledge. All would be correct.

This is the realm where I believe the souls go who have developed the greatest interest in a particular field of life's endeavor, the ones who want to keep on researching and learning more in their particular fields. This gives hope to all people who want to keep learning and have established enough wisdom to realize we have just begun to scratch the surface in any field when we are on the earth's level of development.

I became aware that the Christ was watching some souls in their study of the universe's religions and saw he did not judge any of them. They too were not judging the religions which they were studying but were interested in the many different ways the beings of the universe had attempted to come to understand their Creator. I suddenly realized how wrong it was for any of us on earth to judge another's approach to God or to feel we have the only answers. The moment that realization came into my mind it was followed by his thought placed in my mind:

"You are right, for if I, LOVE, be lifted up, I shall draw all humanity unto me. If you come to know the Father, you will come to know me. If you come to know me you will come to know that LOVE includes all beings regardless of their race, creeds or color."
 
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