nancy70x7
Member
Im probably going to regret this, but Im taking this thread out of retirement. It is unfinished business for me, and I need to tie up some loose ends.
Dave Taylors post:
Nancy wrote:
The Church (the Body of Christ) was a MYSTERY not revealed until Paul (Romans 16:25). OT saints could not be part of something that didn't exist during their time.
Scripture would say differently.
If you look at the context of that very passage; it makes it plain that the mystery had been revealed to the OT prophets (of faith). The mystery of salvation was hidden from the faithless; and only made known unto the faithful; which prior to Calvary; constituted only a small number of people that had ever lived.
16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith"
No Dave, Scripture does not say differently. It still says kept secret since the world began but NOW is made manifest, and you cannot ignore it.
and by the scriptures of the prophets,
I challenge you to find the gospel of grace declared anywhere by the prophets in the OT. Im talking the gospel as we define it in this dispensation (yes, I used the d word!)
it makes it plain that the mystery had been revealed to the OT prophets (of faith). The mystery of salvation was hidden from the faithless; and only made known unto the faithful;
No it doesnt. A truth cannot be both kept secret and revealed at the same time. That just isnt logical. And talk about redefining words! You have replaced prophets with the word faithful. Faithful is not an equivalent word for prophet. God used the word prophets and no matter how hard you try, you cannot make it say faithful. To change the word changes the whole meaning of the verse, and diminishes what the verse says. True prophets of God were charged with speaking and writing the words of God exactly as given. If the prophets knew, others would too, because the prophets would tell them. And it would be written down in their writings. Find it!
that after being taught dispensationalism and that being the only view I knew for over 20 years; that someone shared important scriptures with me that helped me be dissuaded
Betcha those important scriptures werent rightly divided. Not rightly dividing Scripture guarantees a screwed up interpretation.
and I know of dozens of other folks who have had similar experiences
Dozens, huh? Well that certainly adds credibility to your argument! I wonder how many dispies evaluate their dispensationalism and decide to stick with it? You and your dozens of other folks must not have been all that well grounded despite your 20 years of dispensationalism. You need to make it your own. Pity you didnt.
where fellow Christians who love the Bible and love their neighbor have taken the time to question dispensationalism and to help them too; see its error.
Is the implication here that dispensational believers do not love the Bible, or love their neighbor as much as you and your ilk? Thats just insulting. As far as dispensationalism having error, that is merely your opinion. You have come to that conclusion because you have accepted a less-than-sound interpretation. IMO, no one has a perfect system, because none of us has perfect understanding. Dispensationalism is simply the best choice out of all the choices we have.
I may not dissuade you one bit; however, sharing the scriptures and showing scriptures that either refute or dilute the dispensational viewpoint shouldn't be received hostily; but sincerely.
No, you will not dissuade me, or any other adequately instructed dispie. And you should practice what you preach, Dave. I consider what you believe to be error, and I will not receive it nicely. If you want me to receive your efforts well, dont shovel error at me. I doubt if you would receive a high-pressure, error-laden assault against whatever it is you believe. This is so sad, because there is probably much that we can agree on concerning the faith. Ecclesiology obviously isnt one of them.
For folks who have made there mind up and don't want to change; and wouldn't consider evaluating or changing their framework; then no change will occur
Again, insulting (but very subtly so). Yup, Im just one of those weak-minded, banjo-pickin boneheads who just doesnt have enough gray matter to evaluate much of anything! Please!! I have evaluated dispensationalism, as would any intellectually honest believer who is concerned with glorifying God and avoiding doctrinal error. Dont assume I am less spiritually minded than you because I hold tenaciously to a system you have decided to reject. And mores the pity!
But there are alot of folks out there who are questioning dispensationalism"
Yup, and youre trolling for them. Youre going to use your gift of gab to cover your weak argument, so you can talk them over to whatever it is you believe. I still dont know what to call it.
That is why there is a discussion forum dedicated to it; so searching people can learn about; from both sides of the interprative fence; and hopefully can base their decisions on the scriptures given.
Bet youd be really disappointed if they decide to be dispensationalists.
Deep breath! Post!!
Dave Taylors post:
Nancy wrote:
Scripture would say differently.
If you look at the context of that very passage; it makes it plain that the mystery had been revealed to the OT prophets (of faith). The mystery of salvation was hidden from the faithless; and only made known unto the faithful; which prior to Calvary; constituted only a small number of people that had ever lived.
16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith"
No Dave, Scripture does not say differently. It still says kept secret since the world began but NOW is made manifest, and you cannot ignore it.
and by the scriptures of the prophets,
I challenge you to find the gospel of grace declared anywhere by the prophets in the OT. Im talking the gospel as we define it in this dispensation (yes, I used the d word!)
it makes it plain that the mystery had been revealed to the OT prophets (of faith). The mystery of salvation was hidden from the faithless; and only made known unto the faithful;
No it doesnt. A truth cannot be both kept secret and revealed at the same time. That just isnt logical. And talk about redefining words! You have replaced prophets with the word faithful. Faithful is not an equivalent word for prophet. God used the word prophets and no matter how hard you try, you cannot make it say faithful. To change the word changes the whole meaning of the verse, and diminishes what the verse says. True prophets of God were charged with speaking and writing the words of God exactly as given. If the prophets knew, others would too, because the prophets would tell them. And it would be written down in their writings. Find it!
that after being taught dispensationalism and that being the only view I knew for over 20 years; that someone shared important scriptures with me that helped me be dissuaded
Betcha those important scriptures werent rightly divided. Not rightly dividing Scripture guarantees a screwed up interpretation.
and I know of dozens of other folks who have had similar experiences
Dozens, huh? Well that certainly adds credibility to your argument! I wonder how many dispies evaluate their dispensationalism and decide to stick with it? You and your dozens of other folks must not have been all that well grounded despite your 20 years of dispensationalism. You need to make it your own. Pity you didnt.
where fellow Christians who love the Bible and love their neighbor have taken the time to question dispensationalism and to help them too; see its error.
Is the implication here that dispensational believers do not love the Bible, or love their neighbor as much as you and your ilk? Thats just insulting. As far as dispensationalism having error, that is merely your opinion. You have come to that conclusion because you have accepted a less-than-sound interpretation. IMO, no one has a perfect system, because none of us has perfect understanding. Dispensationalism is simply the best choice out of all the choices we have.
I may not dissuade you one bit; however, sharing the scriptures and showing scriptures that either refute or dilute the dispensational viewpoint shouldn't be received hostily; but sincerely.
No, you will not dissuade me, or any other adequately instructed dispie. And you should practice what you preach, Dave. I consider what you believe to be error, and I will not receive it nicely. If you want me to receive your efforts well, dont shovel error at me. I doubt if you would receive a high-pressure, error-laden assault against whatever it is you believe. This is so sad, because there is probably much that we can agree on concerning the faith. Ecclesiology obviously isnt one of them.
For folks who have made there mind up and don't want to change; and wouldn't consider evaluating or changing their framework; then no change will occur
Again, insulting (but very subtly so). Yup, Im just one of those weak-minded, banjo-pickin boneheads who just doesnt have enough gray matter to evaluate much of anything! Please!! I have evaluated dispensationalism, as would any intellectually honest believer who is concerned with glorifying God and avoiding doctrinal error. Dont assume I am less spiritually minded than you because I hold tenaciously to a system you have decided to reject. And mores the pity!
But there are alot of folks out there who are questioning dispensationalism"
Yup, and youre trolling for them. Youre going to use your gift of gab to cover your weak argument, so you can talk them over to whatever it is you believe. I still dont know what to call it.
That is why there is a discussion forum dedicated to it; so searching people can learn about; from both sides of the interprative fence; and hopefully can base their decisions on the scriptures given.
Bet youd be really disappointed if they decide to be dispensationalists.
Deep breath! Post!!
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