Ultimate argument to Atheist?

[Alunyel]

Atheism: “The evolution’s mistake”.


Ok my atheist friends, think that you guys reach your goal: 7,000,000,000 person of the world are clean, God free, only secular values. What is the next steep?

1) There will be a scientist that will say: “I going to do a time machine to travel from the beginning of time to the end of times”. What do you going to tell him?

a) We support you, just ask us for help and we will help you.
b) Say to him: that is impossible.
c) Good luck.

2) There will be a scientist that will say: “I going to work in finding the theory of everything so we can control the universe”. What you will tell him?

a) We support you, we will help you.
b) That impossible the universe is to large
c) Good luck.

3) There will be a scientist that will say: “I will use the time machine and the control of the universe to resurrect every single person, and create a city with gold’s walls for them”. What do you going to tell him?

a) Great! We will make that our civilization goal.
b) That’s against nature; we should live maximum 100 years and then die.
c) Good luck.

Why do you want to "combat atheism"?

What does any of that have to do with "combating atheism"?

What the smeg are you on about?

 

[Eudaimonist]

I think this is a good time to say that I always liked the joke about the funeral for the atheist, in which someone (presumably not an atheist), looks at the deceased and remarks "Poor (dead atheist's name). All dressed up and nowhere to go."

LOL! That's actually funny.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Suplux]

Awful questions. Awful answer choices. Don't expect any decent answers until you write some decent questions.

 

[GodsNet]

Excuse me if take me long to respond, my computer is not working and I am overworking.
Thanks for all the feedback.


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MUAD DIB

I would support all of them, assuming they had a solid theory to back up what they were doing.

What is the purpose behind these questions? Surely you are implying that one day atheists will become as powerful as god, but more merciful because they would be nice to all the people.

The purpose behind these questions is to identify if the atheist are aligned or not with the purpose of nature.
The purpose of nature is to create living mater that will control the inert mater.

Several species came and go, do the Atheists realize it or not?

Do this questions are enough to open Atheists eyes?

Sam Harris thinks “yes” these questions are enough to open Atheists eyes. That is why he erase them, that’s why he is afraid of the light because he will lost his job of the atheist’s leader.

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Eudaimonist
c) It's not going to be "our civilization's goal", but a private project. Remind him that there are too many people to fit inside of one city, and that gold walls are extremely gaudy and tacky. Do attempt some resurrections. Get the resurrected Fab Five to design the cities. Unresurrect them if they decide on gold walls. Only resurrect atheists, the Chosen People. Chuckle at the Christians who took the wrong side of Pascal's Wager.
I'm sorry, I just can't keep a straight face in answering these questions. I don't see any "ultimate argument", and I doubt that any of this will, or even can, happen. What is your point?


The point is that you now understand that the reality and the essence of nature: God the only truth. By selecting the “Chosen People” to resurrect you accepts and understand the only viable future is God.

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Legion.As.One
c)Yeah! Let's do that! ............ What a good idea.


Thank you for your support

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quatona
Like with your other suggestions I am wondering why I don´t get the opportunity to say what I want to say, but have to pick one of two poor answers you have worded.


This is your opportunity: In your understanding which is the atheist goal?

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Faelin

I'd tell them to stop being so stupid. This person sounds an awful lot like a James Bond villain. Bent on world domination, and look what always happens to them!



Fealin is the model of the atheist. That sees death as the goal.


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Ayersy

To all of those, I would say "Good luck, mate. Give me a ring when you've accomplished all that, I'll buy you a beer.", knowing he'd never accomplish anything

Ayersy is the model number 2 of the atheist.
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ragarth
I ask you: How would this prove an atheist wrong?



For some atheist there are not right or wrong.

However if you make your brain think a little bit, and you analyze evolution, then you find that the extinct species make wrong decisions that lead to their fate.


Do atheists understand the difference between right and wrong?

Do atheists believe that to die is right and live is wrong?

Back to your question
I ask you: How would this prove an atheist wrong?

If evolution is right then atheists are wrong. If to die is right then atheists are right.



Then, it is up to each individual take sides.


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Penumbra
I don't see an argument against atheism anywhere in there, let alone an ultimate one. It's just kind of a list of misconceptions you have about atheism.

Please educate me: Which is the atheism goal?

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Alunyel
Why do you want to "combat atheism"?
What does any of that have to do with "combating atheism"?
What the smug are you on about?

Why: because atheism bring death and sorrow, and I want to help you to be alive and happy.


What does any of that have to do with “combating atheism”?
It proves that even if you believe in evolution, God is the only reality.


What the smug are you on about?
I do not know what the smug you mean with this “smug”.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Regards

GN




There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death

 

[ragarth]

ragarth

I ask you: How would this prove an atheist wrong?



For some atheist there are not right or wrong.

However if you make your brain think a little bit, and you analyze evolution, then you find that the extinct species make wrong decisions that lead to their fate.


Do atheists understand the difference between right and wrong?

Do atheists believe that to die is right and live is wrong?

Back to your question
I ask you: How would this prove an atheist wrong?

If evolution is right then atheists are wrong. If to die is right then atheists are right.



Then, it is up to each individual take sides.

Ookay...

First, don't assume to know what I think, what I feel, and what my opinions are, if only for the fact that you're doing a really bad job of it.

However if you make your brain think a little bit, you'll realize that strawman arguments exist only in your head, and broad generalizations of entire groups of people are not accurate, especially if those broad generalizations have no basis in reality.

Do atheists understand the difference between right and wrong? Yes.

Do atheists believe that to die is right and live is wrong? Woah now buddy, who here believes that dying can be a gateway to eternal happiness? Oh yeah, Christianity. Or are you going to deny that heaven exists? Your over generalization is just as ridiculous as over-generalizing Christianity as a death-cult. Atheists generally posit that death has evolutionary advantage, but that death has no benefit to the individual.

If evolution is right, neither atheism nor theism are right or wrong. Certain types of theism are dis-proven, but atheism and theism as general philosophies stand just fine. 'If to die is right' has nothing to do with atheism, only certain types of theism- like death cults. But I think we already covered heaven.

So, I think we can add a categorical-error to your list of sins in the atheist bible. Its okay, there's still time for you to repent your ways! Problem is, Humanists understand right and wrong as inherent to human nature, and that doing right as opposed to wrong is its own reward- not that some kindly father figure will give you eternal happiness just because you happen to be a nice guy (and worship him) or else you get thrown into a pit of eternal torment. So who can truly be said to understand right and wrong? The guy who does right because they understand its value to self and society, or the guy who does right because they fear not getting the perfect candy cane after death?

 

[Penumbra]

double post

 

[Penumbra]

Penumbra
I don't see an argument against atheism anywhere in there, let alone an ultimate one. It's just kind of a list of misconceptions you have about atheism.

Please educate me: Which is the atheism goal?

There is no "atheism goal". Atheism by itself just means a lack of belief in gods. Some atheists may have no goals, some may have goals unrelated to atheism, and some might have goals to further atheism. Some may just want to be left alone, some may want to educate people against religion and fight for separation of Church and State, while other atheists, for example many Buddhists that are atheist, may have a goal of achieving liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth. Some may have a goal of getting married, living happily, and having grandchildren. Some may have humanitarian goals. It all really depends on which atheist you talk to.

Atheism by itself just means that someone doesn't believe in gods. It's not a statement of what someone stands for, only what they don't stand for, specifically deities. Other philosophies, like Buddhism, Existentialism, Nihilism, Objectivism, Humanitarianism, Transcendentalism, and so forth, can potentially be included along with atheism to form a philosophy for what someone does stand for.

-Lyn

 

[quatona]

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quatona
Like with your other suggestions I am wondering why I don´t get the opportunity to say what I want to say, but have to pick one of two poor answers you have worded.


This is your opportunity: In your understanding which is the atheist goal?

I´m not sure what makes you think that holding an opinion about the existence/non-existence of something implies a goal (except for avoiding the cognitive dissonance that would come with believing in something you don´t believe in).
Can´t speak for other atheists, but as far as I am concerned my lack of belief in the existence of something is just that: a lack of belief.
On a further note, when it comes to forming goals, I don´t tend to found my goals on things I don´t believe in, but rather on that which I do believe.

 

[Muad Dib]

Alright, its time to give it up.

The goal of the people who do not believe in faeries is death ignorance apathy and sorrow.

Seems the faeries did it or my faerie is truth has the capability to bridge any logical gap.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The point is that you now understand that the reality and the essence of nature: God the only truth. By selecting the “Chosen People” to resurrect you accepts and understand the only viable future is God.

No, the future in this case would be Humanity merely pretending to be God in a limited way using Technology. This is the Wizard of Oz ending to the whole question of "Is there a God?"

In any case, I don't believe that there will be some superadvanced race in the future that will resurrect everyone currently alive. It depends on the Universe having certain exploitable properties that it most likely doesn't have.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't try to bring such an eventuality about if it were to seem doable, but I wouldn't insist on this being some kind of grandiose goal of the entire species.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[GodsNet]

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ragart
Right and wrong is its own reward
Who really understand right and wrong is: The guy who does right because they understand its value to self and society.

What has value and what don’t have value?

That is way I want to get to the BOTTOM OF WHAT IS RIGTH, and I ask you what you think an Atheist society should do with the Scientist that say:


“I will use the time machine and the control of the universe to resurrect every single person, and create a city with gold’s walls for them”.

a) Great! We will make that our civilization goal.
b) That’s against nature; we should live maximum 100 years and then die.

Your answer was

I'm all for turning the future into an afterlife, but don't you think you'd need more than 1 city? I mean, seriously, this would take a few thousand planets just for earth alone. I also think it's silly to make such a project the entire civilization's goal; other people have desires and wants as well.

Which are the OTHER PEOPLE’s DESIRES? So we can evaluate those desires.

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Penumbra

There is no "atheism goal". Atheism by itself just means a lack of belief in gods. Some atheists may have no goals, some may have goals unrelated to atheism, and some might have goals to further atheism. Some may just want to be left alone, some may want to educate people against religion and fight for separation of Church and State, while other atheists, for example many Buddhists that are atheist, may have a goal of achieving liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth. Some may have a goal of getting married, living happily, and having grandchildren. Some may have humanitarian goals. It all really depends on which atheist you talk to.

Atheism by itself just means that someone doesn't believe in gods. It's not a statement of what someone stands for, only what they don't stand for, specifically deities. Other philosophies, like Buddhism, Existentialism, Nihilism, Objectivism, Humanitarianism, Transcendentalism, and so forth, can potentially be included along with atheism to form a philosophy for what someone does stand for.


Thank you for the clarification. It is nice to have the goal of wake up early and run around the block or the goal of be atheist and try to convince everybody. However all those goals have to evaluate in their Transcendence.

You can not say “there is no “atheism goal”.

Even if you do not clarify what is the goal, to be an atheist it will lead you some where.

The universe is as traveling in a train. You can understand that the train goes to a cliff you are too small to stop the train and just want to make goals just to have fun in life; Or build tracks and control the train.


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quatona

This is your opportunity: In your understanding which is the atheist goal?

I´m not sure what makes you think that holding an opinion about the existence/non-existence of something implies a goal (except for avoiding the cognitive dissonance that would come with believing in something you don´t believe in).

You can not separate your belief from your destiny.

Yes, holding an opinion about the existence/nonexistence of something implies a goal.

If you hold an opinion about anything that means that you are a thinking being, and your destiny is permeated for your beliefs.


quatona
Can´t speak for other atheists, but as far as I am concerned my lack of belief in the existence of something is just that: a lack of belief.
On a further note, when it comes to forming goals, I don´t tend to found my goals on things I don´t believe in, but rather on that which I do believe.




That is way I tell to the Atheist, ok God do not exist, now what do you want to do with the universe?


Denying God and following the evolution laws to find a civilization goal you will get to a conclusion analogous to God.


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Muad Dib

Alright, its time to give it up.

The goal of the people who do not believe in faeries is death ignorance apathy and sorrow.

Seems the faeries did it or my faerie is truth has the capability to bridge any logical gap.


Do not give up my friend. If you don’t like my illogical goal, give us your logical civilization goal, please.


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Eudaimonist

In any case, I don't believe that there will be some superadvanced race in the future that will resurrect everyone currently alive. It depends on the Universe having certain exploitable properties that it most likely doesn't have.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't try to bring such an eventuality about if it were to seem doable, but I wouldn't insist on this being some kind of grandiose goal of the entire species.

Which will be a grandiose goal for the entire species?

____________________________________________

Regards

GN




There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death

 

[quatona]

You can not separate your belief from your destiny.

I´m not sure I understand what you are saying here. Initially you were speaking of goals, now you are replacing this term by "destiny". Is there a reason for that change of terminology?

Yes, holding an opinion about the existence/nonexistence of something implies a goal.

Maybe for you, but not for me.
But I would be glad if you´d define my goals for me.
You may want to give me an example: I don´t believe in aliens. Which goal does that imply, in your opinion?

If you hold an opinion about anything that means that you are a thinking being,

Agreed.

and your destiny is permeated for your beliefs.

The operational term was "goal", not "destiny". There is not much point in changing the horses midstream.

That is way I tell to the Atheist, ok God do not exist, now what do you want to do with the universe?

1. This comes down to an argument from consequence. Just because a fact is inconvenient doesn´t render it inaccurate.
2. I don´t want to do anything with the universe. I think the universe just does fine without me having goals for it.

Denying God and following the evolution laws to find a civilization goal you will get to a conclusion analogous to God.

"Following evolution laws"??? What´s that supposed to mean? It seems like you are confusing prescriptive and descriptive laws.

 

[smloeffelholz]

I understand that we are probably working with a language barrier here, and I am trying to understand you as best I can. Still, after reading your OP, I was a bit confused. After reading your first response, I was very confused. Now that I have read your third response, I am completely lost.

You need to state your questions and assumptions plainly. It seems that you are making a lot of assumptions about atheists that are not true. Further, it seems that the questions that you are asking are not conducive to the answers that you are looking for.

 

[Ayersy]

I'm a model number 2? Does that mean I'm the new, super-cool, streamlined, flashy new atheist model, complete with central locking, ABS, electric seats and a CD player?!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.

 

[ragarth]

"Which are the OTHER PEOPLE’s DESIRES? So we can evaluate those desires."

What are the desires of any individual? I want to get my PhD and develop human-level AI. My mom wants to set up a stable life for her kids so they get all the benefits they can give them. My friend wants to setup a business and make sure his child grows up to be happy and healthy. Obama wants shape this country in a way he feels will best benefit everyone. A drug addict wants to get his next fix, a hippy wants world peace. A soldier wants to live while another wants to reach an objective at any cost. A muslim wants to establish sharia law worldwide, a christian wants to bring forth the apocolypse.

There are countless desires, more than I could list in a single post. By asking for a listing of these desires you are simply establishing a red herring, it has no bearing upon the argument at hand. People are people, and unless your saying that a borg-like collective is the way of the future, the fact that people all have differing desires is something that must be taken into account. If we accept people having differing desires, then you either give people the freedom to pursue those desires, or you go the way of tyranny and attempt to dictate their desires. Me, as an atheist, made a statement that I believe people should be free to pursue their desires. Is there something wrong with that? Do you feel that an entire galactic civilization should be ruled with an iron fist and all its people forced to work towards a single goal regardless of their desires?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Which will be a grandiose goal for the entire species?

None. I don't believe in "species goals". There is something oddly collectivist about that. I believe that individuals ought to live their own lives and flourish as the unique persons they are. Some people might be interested in living forever, and some might not be. Some might be interested in supporting research into life extension, and some might not be. Individuals should think carefully about what they value in life and choose that.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[lovinjesus808]

This thread makes no sense. The incoherence of the OP is not helping.

 

[Muad Dib]

give us your logical civilization goal, please.

For now (the next 100 years) I would like to see a goal of providing enough food, water, medicine, education, a home, electricity for every human being, along with establishing renewable energy sources, fusion power, and a permanent foothold in space.

 

[plindboe]

The next post I put it in the Atheist forum of Sam Harris "The Reason Project" and it was erased 10 minute later.

That's a shame. I prefer places where everyone are allowed to make their case, no matter how nonsensical their arguments are.

Do you think this will help to fight atheism?

No. On the contrary it can only help atheism. When you argue a case so poorly, you'll make your own side look irrational, which will end up driving people away.

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Atheism: “The evolution’s mistake”.

Strange title.

Ok my atheist friends, think that you guys reach your goal: 7,000,000,000 person of the world are clean, God free, only secular values. What is the next steep?]

That's not my goal.

1) There will be a scientist that will say: “I going to do a time machine to travel from the beginning of time to the end of times”. What do you going to tell him?

a) We support you, just ask us for help and we will help you.
b) Say to him: that is impossible.]

Neither. I'll say:

c) Sounds like you've seen too many Hollywood movies, but good luck.

2) There will be a scientist that will say: “I going to work in finding the theory of everything so we can control the universe”. What you will tell him?

a) We support you, we will help you.
b) That impossible the universe is to large]

Neither. I'll say:

c) Finding a theory of everything doesn't mean we can control everything. I can't believe a scientist would say something that illogical.

3) There will be a scientist that will say: “I will use the time machine and the control of the universe to resurrect every single person, and create a city with gold’s walls for them”. What do you going to tell him?

a) Great! We will make that our civilization goal.
b) That’s against nature; we should live maximum 100 years and then die.]

Neither. I'll say:

c) Take your medication.

PLEASE have the courage to answer my doubts.

Nothing to do with courage, considering that your questions are neither deep nor difficult to answer.

Peter

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

The next post I put it in the Atheist forum of Sam Harris "The Reason Project" and it was erased 10 minute later.

Do you think this will help to fight atheism?

__________________________________
Atheism: “The evolution’s mistake”.


Ok my atheist friends, think that you guys reach your goal: 7,000,000,000 person of the world are clean, God free, only secular values. What is the next steep?

1) There will be a scientist that will say: “I going to do a time machine to travel from the beginning of time to the end of times”. What do you going to tell him?

a) We support you, just ask us for help and we will help you.
b) Say to him: that is impossible.

2) There will be a scientist that will say: “I going to work in finding the theory of everything so we can control the universe”. What you will tell him?

a) We support you, we will help you.
b) That impossible the universe is to large

3) There will be a scientist that will say: “I will use the time machine and the control of the universe to resurrect every single person, and create a city with gold’s walls for them”. What do you going to tell him?

a) Great! We will make that our civilization goal.
b) That’s against nature; we should live maximum 100 years and then die.


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PLEASE have the courage to answer my doubts.

Maybe you were high when you wrote this, and it made sense then. I think you should read what you wrote again.