UFO'S

[keith99]

A couple of decades ago things times out so I saw 2 TV episodes about the same incident in quick succession. It was about 4 or 5 lights in the sky at night in Arizona that the military said were flares.

The first was from the true believer standpoint. It claimed that they suddenly blinked out, that it could not have been them dropping behind the mountains. But I clearly saw one of them NOT blinking out, but rather disappearing the same way the moon or sun does during an eclipse (though much faster). There were other absurd claims of proof it was not flares.

The second was the skeptics view. They took the time to actually go to the spot where the original video was taken (the same for both shows). They then took a picture of the mountains during the day to establish just where the ridgeline as. That was then superimposed on the video and guess what. Each 'flying saucer' disappeared right at the ridgeline!

My Ex is German. She pointed out that in Germany UFO sightings in the sense of flying saucer claims simply do not happen. Why? Because unlike the American West and some other places, in Germany the other side of the hill is not open country for miles and miles, it is the next village with plenty of people everyone in the village this side of the hill knows well. On the other hand many people live in very well built houses that are older than The United States and in many places there are buildings that go back to Roman times that are still in use. So guess what Germany has? Ghosts!

I personally find it doubtful that an alien civilization that can cross 100s of light years would lack stealth technology. If there are aliens who do not want to be seen they will not be seen. Though I will admit it is possible that UFOs in the alien sense that we see could be teenagers out joyriding or doing their version of cow tipping.

 

[returntosender]

There's been a lot of reports over the years and the gov never gives an inch. It seems to me they are always on the side of denial and yet the reports continue. I believe they know much more then they're saying. So why not say what they know?

 

[returntosender]

A couple of decades ago things times out so I saw 2 TV episodes about the same incident in quick succession. It was about 4 or 5 lights in the sky at night in Arizona that the military said were flares.

The first was from the true believer standpoint. It claimed that they suddenly blinked out, that it could not have been them dropping behind the mountains. But I clearly saw one of them NOT blinking out, but rather disappearing the same way the moon or sun does during an eclipse (though much faster). There were other absurd claims of proof it was not flares.

The second was the skeptics view. They took the time to actually go to the spot where the original video was taken (the same for both shows). They then took a picture of the mountains during the day to establish just where the ridgeline as. That was then superimposed on the video and guess what. Each 'flying saucer' disappeared right at the ridgeline!

My Ex is German. She pointed out that in Germany UFO sightings in the sense of flying saucer claims simply do not happen. Why? Because unlike the American West and some other places, in Germany the other side of the hill is not open country for miles and miles, it is the next village with plenty of people everyone in the village this side of the hill knows well. On the other hand many people live in very well built houses that are older than The United States and in many places there are buildings that go back to Roman times that are still in use. So guess what Germany has? Ghosts!

I personally find it doubtful that an alien civilization that can cross 100s of light years would lack stealth technology. If there are aliens who do not want to be seen they will not be seen. Though I will admit it is possible that UFOs in the alien sense that we see could be teenagers out joyriding or doing their version of cow tipping.

Travis Walton. If i remember the lights were sincronized.

 

[durangodawood]

A couple of decades ago things times out so I saw 2 TV episodes about the same incident in quick succession. It was about 4 or 5 lights in the sky at night in Arizona that the military said were flares.

The first was from the true believer standpoint. It claimed that they suddenly blinked out, that it could not have been them dropping behind the mountains. But I clearly saw one of them NOT blinking out, but rather disappearing the same way the moon or sun does during an eclipse (though much faster). There were other absurd claims of proof it was not flares.

The second was the skeptics view. They took the time to actually go to the spot where the original video was taken (the same for both shows). They then took a picture of the mountains during the day to establish just where the ridgeline as. That was then superimposed on the video and guess what. Each 'flying saucer' disappeared right at the ridgeline!

My Ex is German. She pointed out that in Germany UFO sightings in the sense of flying saucer claims simply do not happen. Why? Because unlike the American West and some other places, in Germany the other side of the hill is not open country for miles and miles, it is the next village with plenty of people everyone in the village this side of the hill knows well. On the other hand many people live in very well built houses that are older than The United States and in many places there are buildings that go back to Roman times that are still in use. So guess what Germany has? Ghosts!

I personally find it doubtful that an alien civilization that can cross 100s of light years would lack stealth technology. If there are aliens who do not want to be seen they will not be seen. Though I will admit it is possible that UFOs in the alien sense that we see could be teenagers out joyriding or doing their version of cow tipping.

Even if aliens have actually visited us, I would believe that 99.9%+ of "sightings" are actually mundane non-ET stuff.

 

[keith99]

Travis Walton. If i remember the lights were sincronized.

No. There was no claim of abduction.

I do think the true believers claimed that all the lights went out at once, but that was clearly not the case. Fairly close, but obviously not all ay once. There are dangers to claims when there is actual evidence available.

 

[returntosender]

No. There was no claim of abduction.

I do think the true believers claimed that all the lights went out at once, but that was clearly not the case. Fairly close, but obviously not all ay once. There are dangers to claims when there is actual evidence available.

They show them every anniversary.

 

[Pommer]

The Father Guido Sarducci character on the vintage SNL posited that “UFOs have this beam that they shoot at you that makes you forget that you saw them. So, if you’ve never seen a UFO, you probably see them all of the time!”
It’s probably still available on the YouTube machine.

 

[MehGuy]

Why do you think the government has kept it's knowledge of UFOs such a dark secret? Why would it hurt us to know the truth?

I don't know. Depends on the government too. I think some of them would be more blabbermouths than others.

 

[Ophiolite]

Even if aliens have actually visited us, I would believe that 99.9%+ of "sightings" are actually mundane non-ET stuff.

Personally, I suspect you are missing a few nines after the decimal point. But I would question your "mundane". I think a portion of the sightings may be a hitherto unrecgnised, natural atmospheric phenomenon. That would be very interesting and because of it novelty definitely not mundane.

 

[returntosender]

Surprised to find more yeses.

 

[Divide]

1) I have no reason to believe that UFOs are supernatural in nature and
2) I have no reason to believe that we've been visited by life from other planets.

But many times when people have sightings they describe them simply diappearing or seemingly to materialize out of thin air. This could be a clue that they are inter-dimensional and therefore supernatural.

WHy not? All the circumstantial evidence points that way. First it was Roswell when they recovered the craft and probably made contact. Then you have all those catlle mutilations and sugical procedures that were done on them. I think those are the fallen ones gathering genetic material so that they can grow it into clones for the demons to inhabit.

They are probably not having sex with our women like in Genesis 6 because the punishment for that that God imposed on them was very grievious for them so they might not do that again. But with genetic material they can clone themselves alien bodies to inhabit. Just one problem, gathing genetic material from the farmers field is dangerous because the airplane technology of the military would interefere much? So they trade technology to the government for permission to mutilate cows and abduct people on a limited scale and without interference.

The government liked this idea so built themselves a Fleet of new craft, UFO's with remarkable capabilities. And new weapons which we've never heard of before. SO while the govt is building it's fleet of ufo's, the enemy is building up it's forces. And all the public knows is that what the media says. They're dragging their feet on disclosure.

Maybe they will show themselves and pretend to be friendly at first? Then fake a few miracles and deceive many. They might orchestrate the signing of the peace treaty? Then show their teeth for the great tribulation...Maybe the anti-christ will be an alien?

 

[Divide]

You ever notice that, we have all these top of the line telescopes out there in use and...we never hear about seeing the UFO's way out there in space? The sightings are always around earth and the moon, never way way out there. Huh. Inter-dimensional.

 

[returntosender]

You ever notice that, we have all these top of the line telescopes out there in use and...we never hear about seeing the UFO's way out there in space? The sightings are always around earth and the moon, never way way out there. Huh. Inter-dimensional.

Good point!

 

[ViaCrucis]

But many times when people have sightings they describe them simply diappearing or seemingly to materialize out of thin air. This could be a clue that they are inter-dimensional and therefore supernatural.

Or it means people are

1) lying
2) high on something
3) confused

I've no reason to believe any stories of things literally materializing out of thin air. Let alone entertain speculations of interdimensional anythings; or then thinking it would be supernatural.

Even permitting someone seeing what looks as though it materializes out of thin air, allowing that scenario to be accurate (from the perspective of the viewer) there could be any number of possible explanations. None of which requires A) inter-dimensional (what does that even mean in this context?) and/or B) supernatural

As far as "inter-dimensional" what does that mean here? When science talks about dimensions it is referring to the dimensions of space-time.

WHy not? All the circumstantial evidence points that way. First it was Roswell when they recovered the craft and probably made contact. Then you have all those catlle mutilations and sugical procedures that were done on them. I think those are the fallen ones gathering genetic material so that they can grow it into clones for the demons to inhabit.

Pranks and hoaxes, hearsay, rumors, and conspiracy theories.

Your conclusion about nephilim gathering genetic material to grow into clowns for demons to inhabit is a fabulously tall tale that I don't believe deserves to be taken seriously.

The view that fallen angels bred with human beings is one that I flat out reject. I take the traditional and orthodox Christian view of the nephilim, that they were just ordinary mortal men.

They are probably not having sex with our women like in Genesis 6 because the punishment for that that God imposed on them was very grievious for them so they might not do that again. But with genetic material they can clone themselves alien bodies to inhabit. Just one problem, gathing genetic material from the farmers field is dangerous because the airplane technology of the military would interefere much? So they trade technology to the government for permission to mutilate cows and abduct people on a limited scale and without interference.

The reason for the flood is clearly explained in Genesis. And it says nothing about angels having sex with women, or demon genetics. That doesn't exist in Scripture, it only exists in the imaginations of some modern people. Why? I have no idea. I have no idea why you'd believe this nonsense.

The government liked this idea so built themselves a Fleet of new craft, UFO's with remarkable capabilities. And new weapons which we've never heard of before. SO while the govt is building it's fleet of ufo's, the enemy is building up it's forces. And all the public knows is that what the media says. They're dragging their feet on disclosure.

Maybe they will show themselves and pretend to be friendly at first? Then fake a few miracles and deceive many. They might orchestrate the signing of the peace treaty? Then show their teeth for the great tribulation...Maybe the anti-christ will be an alien?

Why would you even entertain any of this seriously?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the above I wrote clowns instead of clones. I could edit my post and fix it. But I can't stop laughing at this particular typo, so I thought I'd let it stay.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Divide]

In the above I wrote clowns instead of clones. I could edit my post and fix it. But I can't stop laughing at this particular typo, so I thought I'd let it stay.

-CryptoLutheran

I laughed when I read it too and thought it was a pun, lol.

 

[Divide]

Why would you even entertain any of this seriously?

Lots of reasons. We know that the enemy's primary weapon against us is deception, and the govt says no, so there you go.

Back in the Roswell days, UFO sightings were pretty rare. They are not rare anymore. There is more sightings than ever. They are burgeoning and not going away.

Undoubably some are hoaxes. Others are misunderstood and were something else. But that will leave a certain percentage of ones which have not been explained. What about those?

With almost everyone lying on this planet we have to look at the circumstantial evidence for ourselves and decde if it means anything real. I did that. I think it's real.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Lots of reasons. We know that the enemy's primary weapon against us is deception, and the govt says no, so there you go.

Back in the Roswell days, UFO sightings were pretty rare. They are not rare anymore. There is more sightings than ever. They are burgeoning and not going away.

Take a step back and ask yourself: Are sightings more common because more is supposedly happening or is it because, since Roswell, the idea of aliens become increasingly more ingrained in the popular imagination?

The first Loch Ness monster sighting was in 1933. As rumors and stories began to spread, so did "sightings" of the supposed monster that lived in Loch Ness. No evidence has ever shown that a "monster" lives in the lake, but sightings increased as more and more people heard the stories, and the sightings of the monster began to change and become more regular.

Much in the same way that, funnily enough, supposed encounters with "aliens" have increasingly become more standard. We have a popular conception of "aliens" as grey or green-skinned short humanoids, with large almond eyes, flat noses, thin lips, large heads, etc. Because there really are aliens that look like this, or because it's a popular fiction and so such "encounters" start following a regular script.

There's no evidence that a monster lives in Loch Ness. There's no evidence of extraterrestrial beings ever coming to earth. All "evidence" inevitably has plenty of other explanations, known explanations. Crop circles? People did it, in fact we know people do them because those who did it showed how they did it.

What you are looking at is not an increase in people actually seeing and encountering little green men, but popular culture and the creativity of the human imagination. There's nothing otherworldly or supernatural going on with this, it's about as mundane as it gets.

Every culture has its folklore, some folklore is old, but what we're seeing is modern folklore. There's no such thing as werewolves, but people claimed werewolves and people "saw" werewolves in centuries past. Same with vampires. No such thing as vampires either.

Fairies, werewolves, "aliens", and the Loch Ness monster--not real. Or at least no evidence exists for any of them. Hearsay, rumors, conspiracy theories, but nothing really real.

And I say that as someone who actually does think that there is a high degree of probability of there being life on other planets. I just don't believe we've ever been visited by anything from another planet.

And they aren't demons.

They are the fictitious imaginings of human beings.

Undoubably some are hoaxes. Others are misunderstood and were something else. But that will leave a certain percentage of ones which have not been explained. What about those?

They remain unexplained. That's how the real world works. Sometimes things happen and we don't have an available explanation. Sometimes explanations come later.

At one point we didn't have an explanation for the regular patterns of weather. Then we began learning more about the world, and as we've learned more about the world we've been able to discover that weather is the product of interconnected natural systems across our planet. The rains happen every year because of reasons we know very well today--but they weren't known centuries or especially thousands of years ago.

When something does not, at the moment, have explanation--that's okay. Sometimes it's okay when we don't have an answer. But it is unwise to make wild assumptions based solely on the fact that there is not, as of yet, a clear explanation behind a particular something.

When I, a couple years back, saw what looked like a light in the sky that moved funny then just zipped away and vanished I didn't have an explanation for what I just saw. And I still don't.

There are any number of possible--and rather mundane--explanations. Now, I could have allowed my impulsive thoughts dominate and claim it was anything I could dream up in my imagination. But, both practically and theologically/spiritually, I believe in the importance of sobriety of thought. Scripture itself teaches of the importance of keeping our minds in check and remaining sober-minded--not giving in to flights of fancy.

That's important from both an everyday practical perspective--use critical thinking. But it's also important religiously, because as we see the Prophets in the Old Testament and Apostles in the New say so often and in so many different ways, there's a lot of bogus spiritual and religious and theological ideas in the world, but we don't just go chasing after false prophets, or teachers who say things that tickle our ears, we are called to hear valid teaching, to hold to things we have received from the beginning, to be on guard against fanciful ideas that are contrary to the historic and received apostolic faith. We don't go chasing after another gospel than the one the Apostles preached just because someone says something that sounds good, we say "Wait a moment, that doesn't pass the sniff test, that doesn't sound like what we've heard already and have already believed".

That's not what the Apostles said. That's not what the Prophets of old talked about. That's not what Jesus taught us. That's not what the Christian Church has always confessed. That sounds like something brand new, something very different. That's being a critical theologian, and we should do that, St. Jude wrote, "Earnestly contend for the faith once and for all delivered".

And even outside of religion, again, just practical living--critical thinking. That doesn't jive with what we know about science, what has been tested and observed and seen repeatably many many times. Well maybe I don't really like this politician, but this person going onto anonymous internet spaces making all these baseless claims probably shouldn't be trusted, instead I should make valid criticisms based on concrete facts rather than just what I hear said online. Maybe people on Facebook sharing this viral picture/post didn't vet the authenticity of it themselves, so I should go and check for myself if it is true. Maybe I shouldn't just believe everything I hear, maybe I should investigate, maybe I should check sources, maybe I should consider the credibility of a source based on their reputation and track record.

That way of doing things is what Scripture calls wisdom. And wisdom is a good thing.

With almost everyone lying on this planet we have to look at the circumstantial evidence for ourselves and decde if it means anything real. I did that. I think it's real.

There's, at present, what 8 billion human beings? What do you mean by "almost everyone".

Even if there were a million people making various (and usually contradictory) claims. That would still be a very tiny percentage of all people alive today.

And if we put on our critical thinking hats, well that "circumstantial evidence" probably doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny. The best we'll get are those occasional "unexplained" phenomenon. But, recall, unexplained just means unexplained--nothing more.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Divide]

There's no evidence that a monster lives in Loch Ness. There's no evidence of extraterrestrial beings ever coming to earth. All "evidence" inevitably has plenty of other explanations, known explanations. Crop circles? People did it, in fact we know people do them because those who did it showed how they did it.

The Loch Ness Monster was shown to be a hoax. Some guy admitted it was a hoax. He faked the picture with some sort of homemade decoy type thing and tried to trick his friends. When everybody believed it he just rolled with it I guess.

I don't mind if you don't believe in Aliens or demons. But if they show up, at least you'll have a clue who they really are. Or not, I dunno.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Loch Ness Monster was shown to be a hoax. Some guy admitted it was a hoax. He faked the picture with some sort of homemade decoy type thing and tried to trick his friends. When everybody believed it he just rolled with it I guess.

I don't mind if you don't believe in Aliens or demons. But if they show up, at least you'll have a clue who they really are. Or not, I dunno.

I actually do believe in the existence of demons.

It's not the existence of demons I object to. It's the idea of attributing what we don't understand to the devil that I find objectionable.

The Christian Church has, for centuries, objected to what is called deisidaimonia, a Greek which literally means "fear of demons", or a fear of supernatural powers; in a Pagan context it simply could mean reverence for the gods. In Christianity this word came to refer to false religious sentiment, a false spirituality, a fear or reverence of the supernatural rooted not in truth but falsehood. So, for example, when the Saxon lands became part of the Frankish kingdom under Charlemagne, they were still practicing their traditional pagan religion--part of their belief system was a belief in the existence of witches who could use supernatural powers to curse and hex people. As such it was somewhat common among the pagan Saxons to hunt down those suspected of being witches and killing them, witch-hunting. Now that the Saxons were part of a Christian kingdom and as part of the attempt to convert them to Christianity witch hunting was condemned as pagan superstition.

There's a common misunderstanding in modern times that a belief in witches and witch-hunting was something medieval Christians did. But, in fact, in the middle ages the Church actively condemned witch-hunting and taught that belief in the existence of witches was superstition. It wasn't until the early modern period that Christian views began to change. That's why we see the Salem witch trials in the 17th century, not the 7th century. In fact, official Christian teaching in the middle ages was that to believe that the devil enabled people certain powers, or that the devil could perform miracle-like acts was regarded as heresy and blasphemy. Only God, for example, can create something from nothing; only God can actually heal the sick or raise the dead. So those who claimed supernatural things happened by the power of the devil were told that isn't possible, the best the devil could do is simply deceive people into believing lies. The devil can't make women fly on brooms, but--Church authorities argued--the devil might make people think that women can, or deceive people into thinking such things happened which don't. In other words, delusion.

That's the problem I have with how the modern Church often talks about the devil/demons. It isn't based on a biblical and historically Christian understanding; but instead relies on superstition.

It is, therefore, one of the greatest ironies that a lot of Christians today are afraid of "paganism" in things like, say, Halloween (Halloween is an explicitly Christian day on the calendar, the literal Eve of Hallowmas, aka All Saints Day) and then go on to believe in things, like witches conducting dark ceremonies and rituals in the dead of night putting curses on people and what not--because that belief in witches actually IS pagan. Pagans were the ones who believed in witches conducting dark scary magical things, and that lingering idea in modern times is one of the few ways that old European pagan beliefs have actually managed to survive into the modern era. Not Halloween, not Easter bunnies, not Santa Claus. But the belief in spooky things happening at night because of dark magic forces.

In the Bible "witchcraft" simply refers to practices deemed superstitious and to making drugs for ritual purposes. Not to any supposed actual supernatural power.

-CryptoLutheran