U.S. Church M'ship Below 50%

Occams Barber

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And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
— Matthew 28:18-20


You're in the most Christian nation in the West and 83% of your fellow Christians have no clue what the Great Commission means.

According to @Leah Daniels (post #17) your church is shot through with "fake occult trash, self-centered fame hungry "preachers," and is money and prosperity focused".

Good Luck

OB

 
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Tigger45

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You might need to get your fellow Christians on board with this first. It appears that only 17% of them have a clue about the Great Commission. Remember - you're talking about evangelising the most Christian of all the Western nations.

What is the Great Commission and why is it so controversial? (theconversation.com)
A majority of church-going American Christians are unfamiliar with the term, the “Great Commission,” a 2019 survey found.

Even among those familiar with it, 25 percent recognized the phrase but could not explain what it was. Only 17 percent were familiar with the phrase and its meaning.
OB
You are conflating a pole of some anonymous people acknowledging their lack of knowledge of the ‘term’ The great commission with persons who identify as Christians not knowing they are to share the Gospel? I mean think about it, these same people consider themselves to be Christians ‘because’ someone shared the Gospel with them.
 
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Occams Barber

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You are conflating a pole of some anonymous people acknowledging their lack of knowledge of the ‘term’ The great commission with persons who identify as Christians not knowing they are to share the Gospel? I mean think about it, these same people consider themselves to be Christians ‘because’ someone shared the Gospel with them.


Christianising the West's most Christian nation sounds like taking a bucket of salty water to the beach but - Good luck - I think you might need it.

OB
 
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Tigger45

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Christianising the West's most Christian nation sounds like taking a bucket of salty water to the beach but - Good luck - I think you might need it.

OB
Funny you didn’t actually comment on the context of my post that you replied to. I’m not here to converse with someone that chooses to be unreasonable.
 
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Hans Blaster

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You might need to get your fellow Christians on board with this first. It appears that only 17% of them have a clue about the Great Commission. Remember - you're talking about evangelising the most Christian of all the Western nations.

What is the Great Commission and why is it so controversial? (theconversation.com)
A majority of church-going American Christians are unfamiliar with the term, the “Great Commission,” a 2019 survey found.

Even among those familiar with it, 25 percent recognized the phrase but could not explain what it was. Only 17 percent were familiar with the phrase and its meaning.
OB

There are parts of this I never quite understood. If you were to "make disciples of all the nations" then why would you send missionaries out to nations that were already mostly Christian? I also thought it was rude that (some) other Christians thought they should evangelize us. What was the point? We were already on Team Jesus.
 
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Occams Barber

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Funny you didn’t actually comment on the context of my post that you replied to. I’m not here to converse with someone that chooses to be unreasonable.


I'm sorry you see me as unreasonable.

The' anonymous' people in the pole (sic) were described as "churchgoing American Christians". They were asked about the Great Commission as part of a professionally run survey but were generally unfamiliar with the term. It seems to me that if they are expected to be part of the Great Commission they would at least understand what it means. I'm sure they are all familiar with the Gospel but did not seem to relate it directly to the Great Commission.

To be honest the structure of your first sentence also had me a little confused. I tend not to answer questions if I don't fully understand what is being asked.

OB
 
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Ezana

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I'm sorry you see me as unreasonable.

The' anonymous' people in the pole (sic) were described as "churchgoing American Christians". They were asked about the Great Commission as part of a professionally run survey but were generally unfamiliar with the term. It seems to me that if they are expected to be part of the Great Commission they would at least understand what it means. I'm sure they are all familiar with the Gospel but did not seem to relate it directly to the Great Commission.

To be honest the structure of your first sentence also had me a little confused. I tend not to answer questions if I don't fully understand what is being asked.

OB

To be fair, the term itself (which seems to be what the poll concerns) isn’t in the Bible and didn’t even exist until much later in Western Christian history. I’m sure most Christians are familiar with the evangelistic nature of their religion; how they reconcile this with the practice of their faith is a separate issue.
 
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DamianWarS

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GALLUP NEWS 29 MARCH 2021
U.S. Church Membership Falls Below Majority for First Time (edited)


Americans' membership in houses of worship continued to decline last year, dropping below 50% for the first time in Gallup's eight-decade trend. In 2020, 47% of Americans said they belonged to a church, synagogue or mosque, down from 50% in 2018 and 70% in 1999.

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The decline in church membership is primarily a function of the increasing number of Americans who express no religious preference. Over the past two decades, the percentage of Americans who do not identify with any religion has grown from 8% in 1998-2000 to 13% in 2008-2010 and 21% over the past three years.

As would be expected, Americans without a religious preference are highly unlikely to belong to a church, synagogue or mosque, although a small proportion -- 4% in the 2018-2020 data -- say they do. That figure is down from 10% between 1998 and 2000.

Given the nearly perfect alignment between not having a religious preference and not belonging to a church, the 13-percentage-point increase in no religious affiliation since 1998-2000 appears to account for more than half of the 20-point decline in church membership over the same time.

Most of the rest of the drop can be attributed to a decline in formal church membership among Americans who do have a religious preference. Between 1998 and 2000, an average of 73% of religious Americans belonged to a church, synagogue or mosque. Over the past three years, the average has fallen to 60%.


The U.S. remains a religious nation, with more than seven in 10 affiliating with some type of organized religion. However, far fewer, now less than half, have a formal membership with a specific house of worship. While it is possible that part of the decline seen in 2020 was temporary and related to the coronavirus pandemic, continued decline in future decades seems inevitable, given the much lower levels of religiosity and church membership among younger versus older generations of adults.


MORE: U.S. Church Membership Falls Below Majority for First Time (gallup.com)
includes demographics (region, age, politics, education info and Catholic/Protestant data)
Millennials aren't big on group identity. no doubt membership is down because fewer are going to church but could it also reflect that fewer people want to seek membership despite them still going to church
 
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Occams Barber

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To be fair, the term itself (which seems to be what the poll concerns) isn’t in the Bible and didn’t even exist until much later in Western Christian history. I’m sure most Christians are familiar with the evangelistic nature of their religion; how they reconcile this with the practice of their faith is a separate issue.

Thanks Ezana. I admit to being out of my depth here as someone who's never been a Christian.

I basically have other Christians acting as if the Great Commission is a given and should be familiar to most Christians. They also appear to have a very specific version where the US is the subject/target of the Commission - a sort of re-evangelisation. It seems to tie in with blaming other Christians for the current state of American Christianity.

I get a bit lost in the incredible fragmentation and backbiting in the Christian world.

OB
 
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Occams Barber

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Millennials aren't big on group identity. no doubt membership is down because fewer are going to church but could it also reflect that fewer people want to seek membership despite them still going to church


I'm sure you're right about millennials and group membership but I think there's more to it. Catholics for instance are more affected when it comes to the drop in church membership. Protestants dropped 9% while Catholics lost 18%. There are obvious issues in the Catholic church from past abuses to current schisms and I suspect that the division between sacred and secular morality now has more impact on Catholics. Basically I think we are seeing a breakdown of trust and confidence in the Catholic hierarchy.

OB
 
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You're in the most Christian nation in the West and 83% of your fellow Christians have no clue what the Great Commission means.

According to @Leah Daniels (post #17) your church is shot through with "fake occult trash, self-centered fame hungry "preachers," and is money and prosperity focused".

Good Luck

OB
There’s no such thing as luck.
 
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hedrick

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Not much you can do in a church that is closed by the government over fears of the C19 boogeyman for almost a year that would drive membership down a lot and likely many members are still afraid to go to church without taking all 3 vaccines and wearing double masks and latex gloves due to the media making this virus thing worse than the black plague in the middle ages.
Our church remained active the whole time. Mostly online. Not just Sunday services but the whole range of activities. Youth did some things in person outdoors. Sunday morning there were some people in the service in person, by reservation with careful limits. Of course we’re mostly back in person now.
 
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DamianWarS

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I'm sure you're right about millennials and group membership but I think there's more to it. Catholics for instance are more affected when it comes to the drop in church membership. Protestants dropped 9% while Catholics lost 18%. There are obvious issues in the Catholic church from past abuses to current schisms and I suspect that the division between sacred and secular morality now has more impact on Catholics. Basically I think we are seeing a breakdown of trust and confidence in the Catholic hierarchy.

OB
The church is too institutionalised. People just are not into that sort of big 'C' church any more. The response shouldn't be how do we get more members to feed our massive budgets but rather how do we meet the needs of our mission. I suspect it would be a less big building/staff model and a more home model. A lot of global missions have abondon building physical structures and just engage at a grass roots level. This means at places of work, friends and neighbours homes and simply where people go. meeting at these places is the church. Who cares about membership.
 
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com7fy8

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short answer > it can be interesting to get to know each person being polled so you can understand what that person's answer really means

Now, in case anyone wants to get into what I have picked up by means of decades of church experience in various churches and on the street while getting to know the Bible and how it might comment on "things" I suppose I have noticed . . . here is my long answer >

They were asked about the Great Commission as part of a professionally run survey but were generally unfamiliar with the term. It seems to me that if they are expected to be part of the Great Commission they would at least understand what it means.
I have thought it means to evangelize and that's it. But Jesus says to teach everything He has commanded. This would bring people on to not only getting started with Christ, but how to live . . . how to love . . . how to relate personally with God. And this is a lifelong thing.

But it seems there are people who try to just get someone "saved", then saying you are guaranteed to go to Heaven, no matter what. But they do not talk with you about how to become and to love like Jesus. But they will say there is the "Great Commission" . . . which can have a great omission . . . of how to be and how to love.

But in His Sermon on the Mount . . . Jesus could have started by saying anything that He considered to be the most important and valuable to say. And how does He start? . . . with how to be in our heart > "poor in spirit" > then in the next verses He includes > merciful, meek, pure in heart . . . how to be.

And I find how Jesus Himself is poor in spirit, meek, merciful, and pure. So, He means to become like Himself . . . the way God's love cures our character, I now understand. But I do not hear a very strong emphasis on this, in a certain amount of preaching . . . on TV but also in churches and conversations with Bible believers and church people not so obviously claiming the Bible.

So, I am curious if the poll treated "the great commission" as though it only means evangelization, and assumed this to be the correct representation.

I’m sure most Christians are familiar with the evangelistic nature of their religion; how they reconcile this with the practice of their faith is a separate issue.
You say, "evangelistic".

My opinion is that Biblical Christianity is evangelistic, yes, but while we give special attention to people growing in how to be like Jesus and how to love like Jesus. Or else . . . your church will not be healthy for taking care of people who become children of God. And it is possible . . . if a church is not maturing in all the meaning of the New Testament, but is only mainly giving people tickets guaranteeing they will go to Heaven . . . no matter what they do . . . it is possible the conversions of such a church could be false, and so their members will keep on having lifelong personal problems with no real progress. Because they are not living in and obeying how God's almighty peace effects our personalities and how we relate.

There seem to be groups who "schedule God" for Sunday morning and maybe a day or two during the week. And ones often talk about how they can't make time to "be with God". They can't handle more than a couple hours on Sunday. And they are wasting themselves during the week because they have not become submissive to God in His peace and personal guiding; yet, they can talk people to saying a prayer and being guaranteed Heaven. And when the COVID hit . . . that wrecked pretty much all they had going for them, socially. Because God was scheduled only for a certain building and certain times of the week, where and when they did not dare to go. Yet, in certain places they stayed open, did not wear masks, but they had God scheduled, even so, and ones who stayed home fell through the cracks. And people who get older can phase to the back seats . . . not become mature role models for the younger ones, while only certain trained ones speak at the front of the church. And then the seniors just more or less disappear.

could it also reflect that fewer people want to seek membership despite them still going to church
Now we have maybe more churches which do not require membership > called "evangelical". Some are more with the Bible, I would say, while others are more "user friendly", not requiring you to have much ability to understand God's word . . . so you can feel comfortable.

Ones find there are Biblical reasons not to require membership, while others do not want people to feel that requirements are being imposed on them. People can feel afraid of being controlled; so now we have churches which try to make it seem like they are not trying to control people. It is Biblical not to control people, but there needs to be sound example leadership >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

A leader, then, takes the lead in doing what we all need.

So, we do have people who fully understand we need to reach people who need to be saved by Jesus. Plus, we understand we need to be God's way so we can help people who become children of God . . . help them to mature, find out how to be with God and submit to Him, and discover how to share as His family while we reach to others. And we understand this works by means of our example being real, our prayer, and telling people . . . and talking with people personally.

To me, it appears that there can be a copy-cat thing, of saying a prayer someone else tells you to say, in order to get you saved by Jesus, then you are instantly a member of the church which has you copy-catting what they tell you to do. And, yes, they tell you to pay the "tithe" of ten percent of your income to their church . . . so God will bless you. They say you don't do anything to get saved, but then yes you control God to bless you or not. In fact, your free will can be an idol. And the messages are mainly about you yourself being blessed by God, and controlling if and even how God is "permitted" and "allowed" to bless you. There is not first the emphasis that you give yourself all the way to God, then discover how to submit to how He pleases to care for you and guide you . . . and correct you so you become all-loving and caring as much about others as yourself. You hear prayer for your country and soldiers, but not prayer of loving enemies and caring about other countries as much as your own . . . in all-loving prayer. That tithe in such churches can be also an idol. And ones will talk plenty about that Great Commission, then, in order to get you to get people to say that copy-cat prayer and then tithe while they get others to say the prayer, and sing that they are so happy they will go to Heaven > caring mainly that they themselves will go to Heaven . . . not caring first about being corrected and conformed to be and to love like Jesus, so they are caring as much about others as themselves and their own families > "if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" Jesus does say in Matthew 5:46.

And, of course, when certain ones argue against Christianity, they do not argue against what the Bible says is our calling >

first to be with God > Mark 3:14

to share with God and personally submit to Him in His own peace > Colossians 3:15, Philippians 4:6-7

to love any and all people as ourselves while sharing as God's family > Matthew 5:46, Ephesians 4:31-5:2

Membership, then, can be a decoy issue, and an idol used to measure how successful a church is . . . a church's status symbol, maybe. So, if you attack what is an idol for people, yes you can get an interesting discussion going :)

By the way . . . it might be interesting to poll what people's experience of God is. Does God personally share with you, or is He theoretical? How does God effect your character? How do you experience God is? I personally find Him to be quiet, not silent; so I need to be quiet so I can experience and hear Him . . . all the time. His peace is quiet and kind, with creativity for what to do and how to love each and every person; but there are things which can keep me from living in this peace. Colossians 3:15 to me means that part of our basic Christian calling is to so share with God and one another children of God, in His own peace. Do polls talk about this Christianity? Or, might they be decoying our attention elsewhere??
 
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DamianWarS

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Now we have maybe more churches which do not require membership > called "evangelical". Some are more with the Bible, I would say, while others are more "user friendly", not requiring you to have much ability to understand God's word . . . so you can feel comfortable.

Ones find there are Biblical reasons not to require membership, while others do not want people to feel that requirements are being imposed on them. People can feel afraid of being controlled; so now we have churches which try to make it seem like they are not trying to control people. It is Biblical not to control people, but there needs to be sound example leadership >
Accountability can be accomplished through other means. We don't have to plug into a membership model. Church is big business and for some reason we're stuck in that big business model and think it's the only way to do church.
 
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