Types???

[stratt]

So... aparently we all believe in the different dispensations (at least to a degree.) How do you think the different dispensations relate to each other as in types?

For instance how would the passover relate to our dispensation?

If you dont believe types exist, or this is not a good practice, please feel free to say why.


1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

I just included that peice of scripture for a better clarification of types....

 

[foundinHim]

These verses are 'typical' of the Mosaic dispensation...I am referring to:
1Cor.10:6-7
v.6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
v.7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."

As I told you in a different post, I have only studied a little on the 'types' of Christ...so, I'm not quite sure how to proceed.

How do you think 'Passover' relates to this "dispensation of the grace of God"?

 

[stratt]

Passover relates in that....

They israellites were in bondage (sin) in egypt (satans system.) They could not free themselves, it was impossible for them to come out of bondage on their own strength. But God provided a way.

The first born son was a type or represented the family. All the first borns in the land were to die, there was no exemption, even for israel. But a way of salvation was given by god, via the death of the lamb and its blood spread upon the lintel and the two side posts (jesus.) The death of animals couldnt take away sin, but it did forshadow the death of christ.

Then after the death, they went our of egypt... but they were not saved until they set foot upon the dry land on the other side of the waters.... there enemies were destroyed behind them.

There salvation was completely Gods work. And they could not go back into egypt. They were saved, and could not be unsaved. There enemies were dead.

Once saved, they still could not go near to god, he was up the mountain, and only moses(jesus) could go and see him.

After the law was given, they STILL couldnt approach God, they were warned not to go near the mountain. But then, All the words of the lord and all the judgments were recorded in a book. An alter was set up and the blood of the covenant was sprinkled upon the book and upon the people (the elders representing the whole congregation.)

AFTER the sacrafices and peace offerings, moses goes up with aaron and the elders, and they see god and eat and drink with him. Aaron comes down from the mountain, and the tabernacle is built. Aaron is now a high priest..... jesus also had to ascend into heaven before he became our high priest. It is all a type.


And it goes on from there, some see the promised land as heaven, but it isnt, it is a spiritual walk with God. If it was heaven, then moses and all the rest never would be in heaven.... only joshua and caleb.

they enter the promised land, but do not take it (spiritual walk) the giants still remain (specific sins) they fear the power of the giants, although God had basically already procalimed victory for them over the giants (sin)

You see?

 

[stratt]

sorry if my above post is not very clear, i am not very good at explaining.

 

[foundinHim]

I was wondering while reading your post...

Do you believe that "the church of God" (body of Christ) is 'spiritual Israel'?

 

[stratt]

I was wondering while reading your post...

Do you believe that "the church of God" (body of Christ) is 'spiritual Israel'?

I am not sure what the term "spiritual Israel" refers to exactly....

I will say that i believe in a difference between Israel and the church just as i believe in a difference between jesus and david. I would never confuse the two.

I do however think that Israel is very simialar to the church just as david was very similar to jesus. But they were definetly not the same person.

One large similarity would be war. War was phisical for the lsraelites, but for us battles are spiritual. I think that the wars in israel were, in no small part, given to teach us spiritual warfare.

I think the similarities are too great to ignore, and were given on purpose by God for our edification. But i dont think god intended us to confuse the types for realities.

I also think that the reason people have confused israel with the church, is that Israel didnt exist until 1948.... and it hadnt existed for almost 2500 years. So i think people looked around and drew conclusions... but now we see israel again as a seperate entity, and we are returning to the more accurate interpretation.

I hope this helps ....

what do you think on the issue?

 

[stratt]

I think the similarities are too great to ignore, and were given on purpose by God for our edification. But i dont think god intended us to confuse the types for realities.


I think that statement may have been misleading... what i meant was, that i dont think we are supposed to believe that jesus is actually david.... or that israel is actually the church..... i just wanted to clear that up.

 

[eph3Nine]

stratt wrote:

I also think that the reason people have confused israel with the church, is that Israel didnt exist until 1948.... and it hadnt existed for almost 2500 years. So i think people looked around and drew conclusions... but now we see israel again as a seperate entity, and we are returning to the more accurate interpretation.

It is a common misconception that Israel has AGAIN taken on NATIONAL STATUS with God.

Many professing beleivers teach that this took place in 1948, but in reality , if you rightly divide the scriptures as we are told to do in 2 Tim 2:15, we wont make that error.

The ending of this PRESENT age of GRACE must take place BEFORE the resumption of Gods program with Israel can occur. You and I are still here on this earth, and NOT YET RAPTURED ...so the coming together of Israel again as a NATION has NOT YET HAPPENED.

It WILL happen, that I can ASSURE you! When the "BUT NOW" age of GRACE, and the preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY is completed, God will RESUME His program with Israel and the NATION that is NOW "LO AMMI" (NOT my people), will again be reinstated as the people of God.

How do I know this? Because Gods Word , rightly divided , tells us that in this PRESENT dispensation of the GRACE of God, there IS NO DISTINCTION ...there IS no jew and gentile as far as God is concerned. He will not gather them who are , in this age of GRACE, NOT HIS DISTINCT people and NATION, but who have been "concluded in UNBELIEF, so that He might have mercy upon ALL."

Today, the jews who live in that portion of real estate are UNBELIEVERS...and they must come to God thru the Cross of Christ.

God will NOT gather the Nation together UNTIL this age of GRACE is OVER.....God is NOT dealing with Israel as a NATION in this present age of GRACE...HE has SET THEM ASIDE, nationally.

 

[foundinHim]

Thanks eph3Nine...couldn't have said it better myself.
All this talk about Israel and specific dates is foreign to me and my study of "the holy Scriptures".

I'm sorry stratt, but I am still not clear on what thoughts you are conveying...but I will say that if you are "rightly dividing the word of truth" ... 1Cor.10:32 "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:" These are the 3 classes of people that God is speaking about in His Written Word.

Jews = Israel
Gentiles = in the O.T., those who are not of Israel and in the N.T., those who are neither of Israel nor of "the church"
the church of God = body of Christ Which is saved Jews and saved Gentiles (all are one in Christ Jesus)

If I may be so bold to ask---are you going to be a pastor for a specific denomination?

 

[stratt]

Thanks eph3Nine...couldn't have said it better myself.
All this talk about Israel and specific dates is foreign to me and my study of "the holy Scriptures".

I'm sorry stratt, but I am still not clear on what thoughts you are conveying...but I will say that if you are "rightly dividing the word of truth" ... 1Cor.10:32 "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:" These are the 3 classes of people that God is speaking about in His Written Word.

Jews = Israel
Gentiles = in the O.T., those who are not of Israel and in the N.T., those who are neither of Israel nor of "the church"
the church of God = body of Christ Which is saved Jews and saved Gentiles (all are one in Christ Jesus)

If I may be so bold to ask---are you going to be a pastor for a specific denomination?

I see what you guys are saying, but in my understanding, Isreal = 12 tribes
gentiles = non isreal
church of god = anyone saved in our dispensation

To answer your question, i dont know that i will be a pastor, and if so, i certainly have no idea what denomination....

I see what your saying about israel not being recognized by God, although i have never heard that idea before.... i have heard the idea that they were set aside.

 

[stratt]

ok, after thinking about it abit..... if israel is not recognized by god..... then how will the end times come to pass.....

In my understanding, israel as a nation plays a large role in the end times.... and it all ends at the battle of armageddon... where israel and the world are at war..... then jesus returns.

If israel is not recognized by god, at what point are they? after the rapture or before or what?

I assumed that the fact that they are a nation again, means that God allowed it because the end is near and he is recognizing the apostate israel....

Could you please give me a brief rundown of how you beieve the end times will play out?

 

[stratt]

Also, just to clarify my opinion on "spiritual israel".... I dont think that they are a spiritual church nesseisarily... but in the type of the passover, they sure seem to be...

Types are given in the bible... it is not wrong.... but israel is never mentioned in the bible as a type of church.
Where as somethings are mentioned as types.... i would think that in the type of passover, they could be seen as a type...
however they came out with a mixed multitued.... so it could also be argued that they are not types but that israel is israel and mixed multitude is gentiles...

I have done a little research on "spiritual israel" and i dont think that it is a good practice to make types out of things the bible says are not nessesarily types.

So in a nutshell, NO i dont believe the church is "spiritual israel."

 

[timlamb]

sorry if my above post is not very clear, i am not very good at explaining.

OH, you are clear, and getting clearer!

 

[foundinHim]

Also, just to clarify my opinion on "spiritual israel".... I dont think that they are a spiritual church nesseisarily... but in the type of the passover, they sure seem to be...

Types are given in the bible... it is not wrong.... but israel is never mentioned in the bible as a type of church.
Where as somethings are mentioned as types.... i would think that in the type of passover, they could be seen as a type...
however they came out with a mixed multitued.... so it could also be argued that they are not types but that israel is israel and mixed multitude is gentiles...

I have done a little research on "spiritual israel" and i dont think that it is a good practice to make types out of things the bible says are not nessesarily types.

So in a nutshell, NO i dont believe the church is "spiritual israel."

dear stratt:

You are correct in saying that you do not believe that "the church" is not 'spiritual Israel' because it is not. This belief that "the church of God" is 'spiritual Israel', I'm told has been around for a couple hundred years. I must live a sheltered life because I have, just recently been made aware of it.

On the study of 'types'---I have only studied with the view of the 'types'/'pictures'/'fore(shadows)' of Christ---pointing out Christ---centered in Christ. So, yes, I know and believe that there are 'types' in the Holy Bible. I totally agree with you on this.

May God bless you in all your endeavours.

 

[stratt]

So.... anyone else got a type to bring up?

 

[eph3Nine]

Nope...while the types are very interesting for study, I find that the REAL thing (which the types speak of) is much more interesting.

The types were a picture of the REAL THING.

We NOW have the full revelation of God for our understanding. Praise be to God for completing His awesome Word to us by the addition of the MYSTERY truths given to Paul for we the Body of Christ.

I will continue growing in the FULL KNOWLEDGE that God has provided for us in giving us Pauls epistles....specifically written TO and ABOUT us, and words that COMPLETE the Word of God.

Have you received the book yet????? I mailed it last week.

 

[stratt]

not yet.

 

[kahtar]

Two benefits for studying types:
1] They show the unity of the entire Word of God, and declare the Single Authorship of it.
2] They help to clarify (sometimes) our understanding of the truth that they picture.

 

[kahtar]

One of my favorite types is where Abraham sends his servant to find a bride for Isaac.
In that type, Abraham represents God the Father, the servant reprresents the Holy Spirit, and Isaac represents Christ.
The Servant is sent to search for a bride for the Son. When he finds her, he pays the 'bride price', gives gifts to the bride to be, and carries her away, where she meets Isaac, and they are married in the father's house (although is says Sarah's house there).
It is a wonderful picture of the Holy Spirit searching out the Bride of Christ, for whom the price has already been paid (by His blood), the Spirit giving gifts to her (ie faith, healing, tongues, discernment, etc.)and will eventually 'carry us away' into the clouds where we will meet Jesus, and will go to the 'place prepared in My Father's House', and partake of the marriage supper of the Lamb, etc.

 

[kahtar]

I did a study on the first chapter of Genesis you might find interesting. It is posted here:
http://www.christianforums.com/t3341104-redemption-in-gen-1.html