Types of sin

[akmom]

My husband and I were talking about sin, and how we both noticed that we are more "accepting" of people who have the same kind of vices as us. I mean none of us approves of sin, but I do find myself being more sympathetic to people who share my particular temptations. And I'm much more critical of sins that aren't particularly tempting to me. And I was kind of curious about how this might play out in marriage.

We all struggle with sin, and I think we all struggle with one or more particular "categories" of sin. So is it easier or harder on a marriage if you and your spouse share the same weaknesses? Or does it not really matter what type of sin each struggles with?

To make it simple, I was thinking in terms of the "seven deadly sins." I think they pretty much cover all the attitudes that prompt recurrent sin.

WRATH
GREED
SLOTH
PRIDE
LUST
ENVY
GLUTTONY

If I had to pick my biggest weakness, it would probably be pride. And gluttony would be a close second. Sloth and envy would probably be the ones I least relate to. My husband, on the other hand, has neither of those vices, and probably struggles more with sloth and envy. Yet we get along pretty well. It's strange, because my closest friends seem to have vices more like mine, and I tend not to get along as well with people who have different vices.

Maybe it is just a coincidence on both fronts. We tend to pick our friends and spouses based on their qualities, not their brand of sin, obviously. But I think it inevitably affects are relationships on both counts. What do you think? Do "sin categories" affect relationships or not really?

 

[ValleyGal]

I have a bit of a different take on sin. While I do not disagree with the list, I have to say that in addition, there are defects of character which can lead us to sin against others. While some defects of character can be traced to the seven deadly sins, some are independent of them, such as intolerance, perfectionism, people-pleasing, phoniness, impulsiveness, false humility, blaming, self-centredness, and others.

All of us have all character defects to one degree or another, and they contribute to sin. If sin is defined as "missing the mark of God's perfect will" then our character defects contribute to that process by nature - our defects fall short and miss the mark, so behaviour that comes from it is bound to fall short. Since we all have all defects, it also adversely affects our relationships; more specifically, our marriages. My husband and I are similar in our defects, so we understand each other. But we also recognize the patterns and hold each other accountable.

Character defects is also why it is imperative to recognize when and how we hurt our spouse, and take responsibility for it, using marriage as a platform for demonstrating the reconciliatory ministry of the Lord Jesus.

 

[akmom]

I know that not all behaviors fit perfectly into that model, but I think it does tend to cover the attitudes behind sin.

For example:
intolerance = wrath
perfectionism = pride
people-pleasing - Is this actually a sin? Or just social awkwardness?
phoniness = pride (assuming the motive is to impress others... do the qualities really need to be genuine for it to constitute pride?)
impulsiveness = greed, sloth, lust, or gluttony, depending on the specific impulse
false humility = pride (see phoniness)
blaming - this is tricky (maybe sloth, for not taking responsibility?)
self-centeredness = greed

I know many of these sin attitudes can be manifested very differently. (One person's "sloth" might be watching TV, while another person may avoid responsibility with a seemingly active distraction like biking.) And some of the same sin actions can be motivated by entirely different sin attitudes. (One person might be critical because they are quick to anger when others make mistakes - "wrath" - while another may do it to belittle that person and make themselves look better by comparison - "pride." Or it could even be an attempt to undermine them and score a lucrative promotion for yourself - "greed.")

I guess I'm wondering if the different sin attitudes matter. Imagine a husband and wife that play videogames a lot. Maybe one is motivated by sloth (it's a pleasant way to pass the time), while another is motivated by pride (they want to prove to their spouse that they are better at the game, and play competitively). Does it impact their ability to get along?

 

[seeingeyes]

It's easier to have compassion on someone who has the same struggles, yes. A women who is hopelessly coated in psoriasis is going to have a hard time relating to a woman who is complaining about her very first zit. And vice versa.

I think this is the importance of learning to rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn. Natural limitations should have no bearing on the children of God.

 

[akmom]

I meant common sin struggles, not common medical struggles.

 

[seeingeyes]

I meant common sin struggles, not common medical struggles.

Well, yes, it's just an analogy.

Though we can become involved with those who have complimentary sin struggles, too. A bully who "befriends" a doormat, for example.

 

[ValleyGal]

Character defects do not necessarily have to fall into the 7 deadly sins categories. You make a case for self-centredness being greed, and that is fine. Maybe sometimes it is, but not always. I see it as separate from greed because to me, self-centredness has just as much or more to do with being thoughtless about other people's needs. While phoniness may be a matter of pride to some, it may be a form of self-protection to others (fear of vulnerability). People who people-please are compliant and wishy-washy to avoid conflict - then become resentful for their own needs not being met. Perfectionism may not be pride; it may be borne out of growing up in a home where perfect deeds earn love. Others are self-pity, withdrawal, avoidance, lying. I'd say the 7 deadly sins may or may not be operational in some of these, but they don't always have to be, which is why I say that character defects affect people's marriages and relationships maybe more....the 7 sins are obvious outward behaviour; the character defects are inward flaws on who we are as people - both the result of sin inherent in all mankind, and the reason for sin.

 

[akmom]

Basically the question was, does having the same vices or different vices affect the dynamics of marriage?

 

[ValleyGal]

Yes. Imperfect people = imperfect relationships.

 

[Odetta]

I don't character traits - even if you describe some as defects - are sin in themselves. It's more what you do with them.

For instance, i've seen depression on some sin lists, because it tends to make a person self-centered. In my case, I suffer from depression from time to time. But it's due to a God-allowed medical condition called bipolar disorder. The bipolar disorder is not a sin, it's a thorn. But suffering with it for years and allowing it to negatively impact both myself and those around me, when there are God-provided treatments for it to take advantage of, now that I consider a sin. From which I have repented.

Same with my kids. Both are ADHD and prone to impulsiveness. Sometimes they implusively tell me they love me, just out of the blue. Or how about the time S1 impulsively decided he wanted to donate one of his gaming systems to a kid in our neighborhood who lost his in a house fire. How are those things a sin? Not that impulsivenesses always leads to good choices, and those bad choices I would consider a sin. But I don't consider impulsivity itself a sin.

Kind of a side topic, I guess.

 

[ValleyGal]

Is it sin to have a sin-nature? Does our sin-nature fall short of God? Yes. That is what I was getting at. Our sin-nature is laden with character defects. I personally would not call clinical depression a character defect, but yes, I agree that it can become a character defect when it is blamed for sinful behaviour. So...is it the outward behaviour that is the sin, or is it the inward condition?

Either way, it definitely affects marriage dynamics - along with all relationships.

 

[akmom]

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing on some of them. I think there are personality types that are unhealthy, but not inherently sinful. Maybe they are unhealthy because they tend to lead to sin. I don't think people-pleasing is inherently sinful, but it may - as ValleyGal said - lead to resentment (wrath). Impulsivity is a tendency to act on a whim, rather than thinking things out. But does it matter what that whim is?

A greedy person might act on a whim to steal.
A lustful person might act on a whim to commit adultery.
A slothful person might act on a whim to entertain themselves instead of working on their responsibilities (even if that entertainment isn't inherently wicked).
And a glutton could pretty easily scarf down a bag of chips on a whim.
But a generous person might give away money they didn't budget to give away, and suffer for it later (not really a sin).

I am thinking this. If you are struggling with a particular kind of sin (regardless of how you act it out), and you are struggling to overcome that sin, does it compound the burden to see your spouse struggling with the same thing? Or does it give you a common ground to work on that particular sin together, by being able to relate to the same temptations? Or... could it make you mutually complacent and cause you to enable each other to just keep sinning?

 

[mkgal1]

People-pleasing can be fearing people more than fearing God.......wouldn't you think? I'm trying to come up with a hypothetical....but nothing is coming to mind right now.

 

[mkgal1]

Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing on some of them. I think there are personality types that are unhealthy, but not inherently sinful. Maybe they are unhealthy because they tend to lead to sin. I don't think people-pleasing is inherently sinful, but it may - as ValleyGal said - lead to resentment (wrath). Impulsivity is a tendency to act on a whim, rather than thinking things out. But does it matter what that whim is?

A greedy person might act on a whim to steal.
A lustful person might act on a whim to commit adultery.
A slothful person might act on a whim to entertain themselves instead of working on their responsibilities (even if that entertainment isn't inherently wicked).
And a glutton could pretty easily scarf down a bag of chips on a whim.
But a generous person might give away money they didn't budget to give away, and suffer for it later (not really a sin).

I am thinking this. If you are struggling with a particular kind of sin (regardless of how you act it out), and you are struggling to overcome that sin, does it compound the burden to see your spouse struggling with the same thing? Or does it give you a common ground to work on that particular sin together, by being able to relate to the same temptations? Or... could it make you mutually complacent and cause you to enable each other to just keep sinning?

You know.....in reading this post, it sounds like you're referring to both character traits (being impulsive....as opposed to methodical and a planner) and particular sin-struggles. I wonder if there *is* an overlap? Probably.

Also....when VG brings up "character defects"....I think that has to do with emotional maturity (which there's a distinction and a correlation to our spiritual maturity).

 

[akmom]

In my marriage, my husband is prone to wrath. I just don't get that angry about things. So my tendency is to call him out on it, and try to put things in perspective. I am more prone to gluttony (and pride, but that is more inward and not obvious to a spouse), but my husband is not, so I will not scarf down a bag of chips in front of him. Because it would be embarrassing to me. So I feel like our different tendencies toward sin act as checks and balances.

But I think that outside marriage, I am less patient with people who have different vices. I find myself tolerating prideful people pretty well (at least if they have the performance to match it), whereas I am more critical of sloth.

I wonder if two wrathful people in a marriage would feed off each other and just become more angry, or even direct their anger at each other. Or if two gluttons would just indulge together without restraint. Or do they tend to see themselves in their spouse's conduct and feel more inclined to work on those attitudes?

I don't know if I'm really being very clear. If you had to pick one vice that you struggle with more than others, and then pick one for your spouse, what would they be? Are they different or the same? Can you relate to your spouse's vice a little, or not at all? (For example, I had experienced all the above sins at some point, but would have to say that envy is the one thing I can't relate to much at all. So when my husband expresses that sentiment, I just kind of feel like, "Why?")

 

[ValleyGal]

Ken Dyck, founder of Freedom Sessions, defines people-pleasing as

[FONT=&quot]Being wishy washy, compliant or passive. I disregard my own needs by not asserting myself with others. I refuse to make waves. I resent the fact that I say “yes” when I need to or want to say “no” but am unable to do so. A defense mechanism, passively manipulating others to protect myself.[/FONT]

The thing is, that even spiritually and emotionally healthy people still have character defects. Iirc it is Spurgeon who, after decades of ministry, took time off in order to deal with his character defects. This is an ongoing process, and believe me, when you get started on the process, it becomes more and more evident when each of them is operational. Iow, how sin affects marriage is far deeper than just how we behave with each other; it goes into the core of who we are as people, as believers battling the principalities and powers - the power of our sinful nature.

I don't think this discussion can be had without talking about what will counter the character defects; that is, reconciliation. However, when it comes to behaviourally, how to counter them is to behave in ways opposite to what defect is currently operational. It takes some self-awareness, self-honesty, and vulnerability...when someone is motivated to behave out of their withdrawal (one of the defects), the best thing to do is to reach out to someone they can trust. This is all hard, hard work....

 

[mkgal1]

I know I'm a *former* people-pleaser....(I can't really put a label on my husband's struggle----nor do I really want to, either).

The thing about being a people-pleaser is that everyone else is in control of our lives.....not God. There's also, eventually, going to be a clash between what some of our loved ones would like---then we're torn (who gets the "yes".....who gets the "no"). People-pleasers often TRY to please everyone. I think we all know that *no one* is pleased when that is attempted.

 

[mkgal1]

Ken Dyck, founder of Freedom Sessions, defines people-pleasing as


The thing is, that even spiritually and emotionally healthy people still have character defects. Iirc it is Spurgeon who, after decades of ministry, took time off in order to deal with his character defects. This is an ongoing process, and believe me, when you get started on the process, it becomes more and more evident when each of them is operational. Iow, how sin affects marriage is far deeper than just how we behave with each other; it goes into the core of who we are as people, as believers battling the principalities and powers - the power of our sinful nature.

I don't think this discussion can be had without talking about what will counter the character defects; that is, reconciliation. However, when it comes to behaviourally, how to counter them is to behave in ways opposite to what defect is currently operational. It takes some self-awareness, self-honesty, and vulnerability...when someone is motivated to behave out of their withdrawal (one of the defects), the best thing to do is to reach out to someone they can trust. This is all hard, hard work....

True.....we will always have character defects and will always miss the mark (sin). There should be growth and maturity, though. I agree with Scazzero (Emotionally Healthy Spirituality) that we cannot have spiritual growth and maturity without emotional growth/maturity.

 

[Rockin Robyn]

OP, in my experience, I think it does matter what sins a husband and wife are dealing with - it's going to affect the marriage for sure - but it also depends on the specific dynamics of the relationship and how mature each person is. Are they able to reach out to the other person and try to understand what he/she is going through or are they just judging the other person?

My husband and I both have similar sin problems - mostly gluttony. I think this is good in that we understand each other and can encourage each other to do better. However, it also has drawbacks. Sometimes my husband will have a craving for a certain food that he knows I struggle with and he'll suggest we go out and get some. Of course I'm going to agree because if I have my husbands "approval" then I'm going to eat as much of that food as I can! (and it works vice-versa too)

On the flip-side, our eating habits are different, so we CAN find a way to hold each other accountable as long as one person doesn't bring the other down in their weakness (as described above). My husband's food weakness is Mexican food, while mine is sweets, especially ice-cream. Sometimes when I see him eat sooooo much Mexican food, I can gently encourage him to eat less and offer suggestions on portion control. At the same time, when he sees me down an entire half gallon of ice-cream in about half a day (along with all the toppings and "extras") he can step in and help correct my behavior.

Because we are trying to get on a healthy eating pattern and also for the sake of building our marriage stronger, we make sure to communicate with each other and talk and pray about these issues. We hold each other accountable in our differences because I can easily help him to avoid Mexican food (I like it, but it's not a temptation for me) and he can easily help me to avoid ice-cream and other sweets (he likes sweets, but it's not a temptation for him).

So in our similarities, we can understand each other and have an open dialogue about our issues. In our differences, we find a place of accountability. I think this would apply to any marriage whatever your "sins" are. Even if they are the same, there is likely to be a difference in how they are carried out.

 

[akmom]

Yeah, that's kind of what I was wondering. Does having different vices help a couple to hold each other accountable, or does it make them resentful of each other?