Types of Questions

[quaternion]

I'm not sure I understand your bar analogy

Maybe this is why Aesop had to explain the moral at the end of every fable - because no one actually gets the moral just from hearing the fable.

Not that I can provide you statistics about girls picked up at bars, but my sense is this: Girls go to bars to meet guys knowing that every guy they will meet is a jerk who's just there to use them. Further, of all the women they know, the ones with successful marriages didn't meet their husband at a bar. Of those who did, they're now divorced. Yet girls go to bars. Why? Probably not to meet their soul mate.

The parallel: Atheists go to Internet forums to meet Christians knowing every Christian they meet will be unable to explain Christianity to them in a way that makes sense. Further, every atheist they know who became a Christian, was converted somewhere other than an Internet forum. Yet atheists go to Internet forums. Why? Probably not in hopes of understanding Christianity.

I don't really understand what you're saying about your family. Why would telling me about the details of your relationship with god put that relationship in jeopardy? There's plenty of reasons to protect your family and information about them...but what possible protection would god need?

First, there is a risk. Maybe you disagree but my perspective is you have nothing to lose by being here. If you were to become a Christian, you gain God. Christians, on the other hand, are risking their faith by opening up to you. If you persuade them they are wrong, they lose God.

Second, though, and my main point: it's highly unlikely you're going to get a full, realistic description of a Christian's relationship to God on this forum. What you'll get is very likely to be shallow even if the Christian has a rich relationship.

I think most people would believe that the relationship between me and this girl existed only in my imagination. That's despite the fact that we know she's a real person and we both definitely have a means of communicating with each other.

So when you change the conversation to a relationship with a deity....with no concrete means of communication....it becomes something even less likely than the relationship I just described between a guy and some random internet girl.

I get it that it seems that way. Given that's your expectation, is there really anything you want from me regarding my experiences with God?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Maybe this is why Aesop had to explain the moral at the end of every fable - because no one actually gets the moral just from hearing the fable.

Not that I can provide you statistics about girls picked up at bars, but my sense is this: Girls go to bars to meet guys knowing that every guy they will meet is a jerk who's just there to use them. Further, of all the women they know, the ones with successful marriages didn't meet their husband at a bar. Of those who did, they're now divorced. Yet girls go to bars. Why? Probably not to meet their soul mate.

As someone who worked basically every kind of job to be had at a bar throughout college...I think you're holding some rather broad assumptions about the people who go to bars and jumping to conclusions based on those assumptions.

The parallel: Atheists go to Internet forums to meet Christians knowing every Christian they meet will be unable to explain Christianity to them in a way that makes sense. Further, every atheist they know who became a Christian, was converted somewhere other than an Internet forum. Yet atheists go to Internet forums. Why? Probably not in hopes of understanding Christianity.

Again....more assumptions.

First, there is a risk. Maybe you disagree but my perspective is you have nothing to lose by being here. If you were to become a Christian, you gain God. Christians, on the other hand, are risking their faith by opening up to you. If you persuade them they are wrong, they lose God.

If we start with the assumption that the "personal relationship" between god and the Christian is in fact real....then how could I possibly convince a Christian that god doesn't exist?

It seems to me the only people who might stop believing are those who don't have a personal relationship with god....in which case, they haven't really lost anything have they?

For the record, I don't actually spend my time trying to convince people god doesn't exist.

Second, though, and my main point: it's highly unlikely you're going to get a full, realistic description of a Christian's relationship to God on this forum. What you'll get is very likely to be shallow even if the Christian has a rich relationship.

Why do you think that is?

I get it that it seems that way. Given that's your expectation, is there really anything you want from me regarding my experiences with God?

I asked a question above.

 

[quaternion]

Why do you think that is?

I tried to explain, but my analogies didn't work for you.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I tried to explain, but my analogies didn't work for you.

Which analogy explained why christians are unlikely to give detailed information about their relationship with god?

 

[quaternion]

Which analogy explained why christians are unlikely to give detailed information about their relationship with god?

I hoped the example of the complex relationships in a family might serve as a starting point for a discussion. I will add that I didn't intend to imply my analogies explain everyone in a general way. It was just my opinion.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I hoped the example of the complex relationships in a family might serve as a starting point for a discussion. I will add that I didn't intend to imply my analogies explain everyone in a general way. It was just my opinion.

I see. I think I understood the point you were making about divulging family information . I certainly wouldn't explain in detail my marital relationship just because someone asked. There's an element of privacy that my wife wants that I respect. There's also the matter of safety that I'd be concerned about....

Those issues simply don't exist in your relationship with god though....do they? It's not as if you have to keep god safe from the questions of atheists...

As for privacy....that's almost as hard to understand. Aren't Christians commanded to go out and share the faith? I honestly wouldn't even know about the Christian relationship with god if it wasn't a topic that thousands of Christians have brought up thousands of times over the years. I can give you examples from this forum of Christians making all kinds of claims about the effects of a relationship with God. They'll claim that they have access to some hidden truth or esoteric knowledge. I've heard all kinds of claims about the benefits a relationship with god....but the moment I ask those same Christians about their relationship itself....they suddenly have nothing to say.

 

[quaternion]

Those issues simply don't exist in your relationship with god though....do they? It's not as if you have to keep god safe from the questions of atheists...

Relationships are complex. I wasn't saying it was God who needs to be protected.

As for privacy....that's almost as hard to understand. Aren't Christians commanded to go out and share the faith?

Yes, but how is that done? In college I knew a guy who would walk up and down the street where all the college bars were located. Every Friday night he would yell at the drunks that they were going to hell. I don't consider that witnessing. I've had random people walk up to me and start witnessing. Talk about odd. Someone who doesn't even know me - doesn't know I'm a Christian - yet they assume I need to be saved. And it's not like I was displaying "unsaved" behavior. In one case I was sitting on a bench in a mall talking to a friend.

A pastor I know gets very upset about that type of "witnessing". His position is that you witness to family and friends. Real friends. Not friends you pretend to make just so you can check the box that you've witnessed, but the friends you hope will be friends for life. Based on the 7 degrees of separation, that's good enough to save the whole world. I agree with him.

Of course there will be times when you find yourself talking about Christ to complete strangers ... like, umm, here ... and missionaries have their place ... but that's the less common type of witnessing IMHO.

 

[John Helpher]

Why was I granted clarity due to being gifted with personal experiences to a convincing degree, yet others who beg & plead for God to touch them with an experience get nothing?

Jesus said the two most important concepts are to love God and to love our neighbor. The rest of his teachings demonstrate how to achieve these two most important. One example of this is a story Jesus told about a man who happened upon another injured man, and then helped that injured man. There was no recompense to the man who helped nor was there any relationship between them which motivated his altruism; he helped simply because he believed that helping is good for its own sake.

Applying this lesson to practical reality, anytime we receive alturism from others we are being exposed to an experience, or as you've suggested, being touched by God. How a person interprets that experience is what will make all the difference. It's a bit like the man who was drowning; a rowboat, helicopter, and submarine all came by and offered help, but he time he refused, saying that he was waiting on God.

Further, we can see from the example of people interacting with Jesus that miracles, even undeniably supernatural miracles, will not guarantee a right attitude toward God. The crowd who received miracles one day was ready to crucify him the next, which is why those people who say they'd be willing to believe if only God would jump through a few hoops for them first are usually just fooling themselves.

 

[Caliban]

Maybe question should be asked sincerely or asked to explore a challenging topic with civility. Many people merely ask questions to provoke a gotcha response and experience the validation of their position. Those are never fun discussions.