Two Witnesses

[Jen35]

Besides Jesus David and God, I think the two witness are one of the most interesting characters in the Bible. I mean the Bible don't say much about who they are but it seems like they are two people close to the Lord and two people who share the same mind and testimony..For God to put them together it seems like the two have some kind of connection with one another...I don't know if I will still be alive when they come but it would be interesting to see how all that play out ...

 

[Yennora]

The most interesting fact about the two witnesses is that God didn't give up on us or the lost souls. Instead, he wants as much as possible souls to be saved. This gives a lot of hope for us that even in the darkest days where good is called evil and evil is called good.. we will still have the voice of truth on Earth and we will find the correct edifying that helps us re-calibrate our behavior in front of God.

I see that God doesn't allow it for darkness to take full dominion.

However, I'm not sure if the two witnesses will literally be 2 actual persons or it is a symbol for two entities that we cannot still know/discern.

 

[Messerve]

I think it's interesting... At one point my friend (a very godly person) and I were so close I envisioned that could be us some day. hahaha Yet, somehow laying dead on the ground while people mock your dead body for three days isn't super appealing... At least they're raised to life again. I would love to see th elooks on those people's faces when that happens.

 

[def]

Besides Jesus David and God, I think the two witness are one of the most interesting characters in the Bible. I mean the Bible don't say much about who they are but it seems like they are two people close to the Lord and two people who share the same mind and testimony..For God to put them together it seems like the two have some kind of connection with one another...I don't know if I will still be alive when they come but it would be interesting to see how all that play out ...

The two witnesses are Moses' Tabernacle in the Wilderness and Zechariah's vision of the Golden Lampstand and Two Olive Trees. You mentioned a few clues, and the two witnesses satisfy these clues:
- they are described in the Bible,
- they are connected to the building of the tabernacle; 1st, 2nd and now Jesus describes the building of the third tabernacle,
- they are associated very closely with the Lord (the 1st tabernacle was designed by God and the second tabernacle was supernaturally triggered by God).

The two witnesses testify that Jesus is from God and they authenticate the gospel message. To prove the two are witnesses would require a whole book. But consider:

Jesus says I am the gate and I am the door. The Tabernacle in the Wilderness has a gate into the courtyard and a door to the tent. Jesus' declaration draws us to the functionality of the gate and door use in the Tabernacle. Zechariah's vision concerns the building of the church (lampstand), all of gold (faith), etc.

 

[Jonaitis]

Besides Jesus David and God, I think the two witness are one of the most interesting characters in the Bible. I mean the Bible don't say much about who they are but it seems like they are two people close to the Lord and two people who share the same mind and testimony..For God to put them together it seems like the two have some kind of connection with one another...I don't know if I will still be alive when they come but it would be interesting to see how all that play out ...

It is possible that the two witnesses represent the two faithful churches mentioned earlier in the book, especially since they are both called lamp-stands.

 

[Bob Crowley]

IF the two witnesses are literal figures, I think they're supernatural beings aka angels or archangels.. For one thing, men can't hurt them, and only Satan with his immense supernatural power is finally able to overcome them.

Secondly no man could be trusted with the sort of power these two will have. It would go to their heads - causing famine, flood, drought and fire simply by saying so, with fire coming out of their mouths thrown in for good measure. But for angels it would just be a case of doing a job, or "following orders", not being human themselves.

Third, they seem to be almost on first name terms with God. When they rise again, the voice simply says "Come up here", a sort of, you know, time to get back to the usual neighborhood.

In the meantime though, I won't be getting my knickers in a knot about their identity, if they have one. Way back when I was a new Christian, I went through a brief period of thinking maybe I was one of the "two witnesses" (blush). But as part of sorting it all out (and learning a bit about this new fangled spiritual world I'd suddenly become aware of, and which could be so deceptive), I sought counselling from a few people. One young chap, who worked with street kids and the like, said to me "You're about the sixth witness I've seen in a month! I'm starting to wonder what's going on!!"

So the deception was getting around, at least locally. Personally I think the demons would pick on someone with a self esteem problem, and get them to feel important (shades of "War on the Saints" by Jesse Penn-Lewis), and of course set them up for destructive humiliation in the long run when it became patently obvious they were nothing of the sort. I know of one chap who basically wrecked his role in a particular ministry because - you guessed it - they convinced him he was one of the two witnesses. The problem was he made it rather public in some of the local churches.

Ever since then, I haven't given the issue much thought. It can go into the too-hard basket,
unless of course they turn up in the meantime. If they do, NOBODY will be able to mistake who they are then.

But until then as far as I'm concerned, chapter 11 of Revelation, like most of the rest of it, can just go back in the laundry basket, waiting for someone else to take it out for another spin.

 

[Hieronymus]

Seems obvious to me they will be 2 humans who can be and will be killed.
But God will raise them after 3 days.

I hope to die before this all takes place t.b.h.
They won't come here to celebrate and party, put mildly.

 

[~Zao~]

I don’t think it’s 2 humans. I think it’s the old and new covenants that are the witnesses.

 

[Hawkins]

To me, it says that God will continue to send prophets/witnesses when the very end comes.

The two witnesses, they are the two olive trees. I believe the two trees represent the two series of God's prophets. In OT, it's represented by Moses and Elijah respectively. Moses is more like a law announcer. In NT, it's Paul and John the baptist respectively, where Paul is the law announcer while John the Baptist is said to be equivalent to Elijah. These two series of prophets will continue to be sent when the very end comes.

Prophets differ from Jesus' disciples in that prophets are supernaturally called. Paul is a prophet in nature as he's supernaturally called, though given the same title or ranking as apostle.

 

[DennisTate]

Besides Jesus David and God, I think the two witness are one of the most interesting characters in the Bible. I mean the Bible don't say much about who they are but it seems like they are two people close to the Lord and two people who share the same mind and testimony..For God to put them together it seems like the two have some kind of connection with one another...I don't know if I will still be alive when they come but it would be interesting to see how all that play out ...

You might rather like this discussion and poll?

Could the two witnesses...... volunteer to NOT be raptured....

.....and could the time of their having power poured into them could that be the time of the Rapture????

This might make them somewhat like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus's two best men........
who have arranged for his wedding to his Priestly Bride?????

To get a better idea of what I mean by this I would suggest listening to Mr. Dean Braxton whose wife prayed so fervently for him that he was raised from the dead after an hour and a half and...... .did not even lose his toes........ which his physicians had planned to amputate..... but Jesus healed all twenty nine of his conditions and.... .his toes as well!

 

[fwGod]

The two witnesses are compared to two lampstands (Jewish furniture in the Temple) .. and compared to two olive trees (most closely indicating that the two men are Jews).

The power that they display is the same power as Moses and Elijah or Elisha (I confuse those two names with the two prophets).

The unique power is that fire comes out of their mouths to burn to a crisp anyone (with intent to do harm) who gets too close to them.

We know that they are men because they are capable of being killed. Even as all the saints alive at that future time who are said to overcome he that is in the world, and they love not their lives unto death.

They have a timeframe upon the earth to fulfill then they do not resist martyrdom. Then according to God's plan, they are raised up from the dead in front of all those who for 3 days had been celebrating that they'd killed the two. What a strong witness for God they are to their enemies!

Then without delay, they are called up to heaven while again all stare in astonishment as God shows that no one can prevail over Him or His servants.

 

[DennisTate]

The two witnesses are compared to two lampstands (Jewish furniture in the Temple) .. and compared to two olive trees (most closely indicating that they are Jews).

The power that they display is the same power as Moses and Elijah or Elisha (I confuse those two names with the two prophets).

The unique power is that fire comes out of their mouths to burn to a crisp anyone (with intent to do harm) who gets too close to them.

We know that they are men because they are capable of being killed. Even as all the saints alive at that future time who are said to overcome he that is in the world, and they love not their lives unto death.

They have a timeframe upon the earth to fulfill then they do not resist martyrdom. Then according to God's plan, they are raised up from the dead in front of all those who for 3 days had been celebrating that they'd killed the two. What a strong witness for God they are to their enemies!

Then without delay, they are called up to heaven while again all stare in astonishment as God shows that no one can prevail over Him or His servants.

In my opinion this is an exceptionally good reply to this topic.......

i would love it if you were to copy and paste this over here:

Could the two witnesses...... volunteer to NOT be raptured....

 

[fwGod]

In my opinion this is an exceptionally good reply to this topic.......

i would love it if you were to copy and paste this over here:

Could the two witnesses...... volunteer to NOT be raptured....

It would be acceptable if you copy the url of my post and take it over to that above link and post it on that thread, that would be sufficient should anyone want to click it to see my post in this thread.

 

[DennisTate]

It would be acceptable if you copy the url of my post and take it over to that above link and post it on that thread, that would be sufficient should anyone want to click it to see my post in this thread.

Thank you immensely.... your post is copied in full here:

Could the two witnesses...... volunteer to NOT be raptured....

 

[Kaon]

Besides Jesus David and God, I think the two witness are one of the most interesting characters in the Bible. I mean the Bible don't say much about who they are but it seems like they are two people close to the Lord and two people who share the same mind and testimony..For God to put them together it seems like the two have some kind of connection with one another...I don't know if I will still be alive when they come but it would be interesting to see how all that play out ...

There is evidence that there are not just two witnesses, but the "two" is either 1) an addition, and/or 2) a reference to Israel and Judah/Two Lampstands/Two Pillars. Moreover, it is the Law that two (or more) witnesses are needed to ascertain a crime/sin/transgression. Therefore, the reference is a biblical metaphor to the people that will be around to witness the judgments of the Most High God. This also aligns with Daniel 11-12's wise who oppose the Enemy - these wise ones who are part of the Holy Covenant are not numbered.

You may be a witness.

 

[DennisTate]

The two witnesses are compared to two lampstands (Jewish furniture in the Temple) .. and compared to two olive trees (most closely indicating that the two men are Jews).

The power that they display is the same power as Moses and Elijah or Elisha (I confuse those two names with the two prophets).

The unique power is that fire comes out of their mouths to burn to a crisp anyone (with intent to do harm) who gets too close to them.

We know that they are men because they are capable of being killed. Even as all the saints alive at that future time who are said to overcome he that is in the world, and they love not their lives unto death.

They have a timeframe upon the earth to fulfill then they do not resist martyrdom. Then according to God's plan, they are raised up from the dead in front of all those who for 3 days had been celebrating that they'd killed the two. What a strong witness for God they are to their enemies!

Then without delay, they are called up to heaven while again all stare in astonishment as God shows that no one can prevail over Him or His servants.

You may find this rather intriguing?


Could Satan to some degree be like Stanley Milgram Ph.D?

Aha yes.....I did not know that one........

but here is some more context but.....I must admit...my brain chemical mix is not exactly in the "normal seventy to thirtieth percentile" in terms of some brain chemicals related to serotonin or dopomine???

I can't help but ask questions that many other people don't think of because my brain will not shut up.....and will not stop asking strange questions.......

What if the Apostle John on the Island of Patmos who saw the world rejoicing over the death of the two witnesses........ was NOT shown the death of two other possible witnesses about three and a half or so days before..........
and.....was also not shown what looked like their "resurrection"......but the word resurrection can be thought of in terms of modern medical science as well...........???????

In our time period the phrase "lying wonders" can take on a whole new level of potential meaning???????????

2Th 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


Jer 23:20

The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

Could the two witnesses...... volunteer to NOT be raptured....


Could a time period like our be considered PERFECTLY IN THE YEAR 1519????????? OR EVEN 1619????

 

[fwGod]

You may find this rather intriguing?

Could Satan to some degree be like Stanley Milgram Ph.D?

I don't know about other people but I can't follow what you might be attempting to imply by putting satan and stanley together without stating it clearly.

What if the Apostle John on the Island of Patmos who saw the world rejoicing over the death of the two witnesses........ was NOT shown the death of two other possible witnesses about three and a half or so days before.

Who would they be.. did God reveal something to you that He didn't reveal to John?

and.....was also not shown what looked like their "resurrection"......but the word resurrection can be thought of in terms of modern medical science as well...........?

The apostle John had been shown the events by Jesus Himself so.. it's not likely that there would be a misunderstanding about a resurrection event.

The word resurrection is only used in regard to a mighty act of God.
So your thought that it's the result of modern medical science.. is not in line with the information given in the text.

What would be the purpose in using the word resurrection but somehow changing it's standard meaning to something else.. without making it obvious to everyone.. but that it only occurs to you?

If Jesus meant for it to be conveyed for everyone to know it, then Jesus would have to have told John because John is the one who wrote the Revelation.

 

[DennisTate]

I don't know about other people but I can't follow what you might be attempting to imply by putting satan and stanley together without stating it clearly.
Who would they be.. did God reveal something to you that He didn't reveal to John?
The apostle John had been shown the events by Jesus Himself so.. it's not likely that there would be a misunderstanding about a resurrection event.

The word resurrection is only used in regard to a mighty act of God.
So your thought that it's the result of modern medical science.. is not in line with the information given in the text.

What would be the purpose in using the word resurrection but somehow changing it's standard meaning to something else.. without making it obvious to everyone.. but that it only occurs to you?

If Jesus meant for it to be conveyed for everyone to know it, then Jesus would have to have told John because John is the one who wrote the Revelation.

My idea is that perhaps Satan may be playing a practical joke on human Satanists and he may actually hold them in utter contempt much as Stanley Milgram Ph. D. would really be disgusted with the sixty percent or so of "Teacher subjects" who hit the switch to zap the "Learner Subject" who was really an actor..... with what the teacher Subject thought could be a potentially dangerous level or even fatal level of electrical shock?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Besides Jesus David and God, I think the two witness are one of the most interesting characters in the Bible. I mean the Bible don't say much about who they are but it seems like they are two people close to the Lord and two people who share the same mind and testimony..For God to put them together it seems like the two have some kind of connection with one another...I don't know if I will still be alive when they come but it would be interesting to see how all that play out ...

One of the historic interpretations is that the two witnesses refer to the Old and New Testament respectively. The Apocalypse, by its very nature, is a figurative text full of apocalyptic, symbolic, graphic imagery. In the same way that Jesus isn't literally a lamb with seven eyes and horns, though He is described that way, the text uses deeply symbolic, apocalyptic language.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Besides Jesus David and God, I think the two witness are one of the most interesting characters in the Bible. I mean the Bible don't say much about who they are but it seems like they are two people close to the Lord and two people who share the same mind and testimony..For God to put them together it seems like the two have some kind of connection with one another...I don't know if I will still be alive when they come but it would be interesting to see how all that play out ...

They are the old and new testament. Only the Word of God has the authority to call down fire from heaven. The Bible was in sackcloth and ashes for 1260 years while it was held back from the common people and also on the list of "forbidden books" for a portion of that time.

One of the historic interpretations is that the two witnesses refer to the Old and New Testament respectively.

Agreed.