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LOLOL - See why I dropped out?
Why are you converting then?
I am converting because the Catholic Church was the true church that was founded by Jesus Christ, and there is no salvation outside of the catholic church with the exception of invincible ignorance.
Wouldn't the true Church hold the fullness of faith and all that has to offer?
Many but not all Protestants have heard that Catholics believe the Catholic Church is the one true Church. But that is a different thing from knowing that the Catholic Church is the one true Church. So they may have heard it, but that doesn't mean it is proven to them or that they know it as a fact.I think most protestants do know but will not acknowledge it since they were told otherwise by another protestant. I grew up in the protestant church. I along with all my protestant friends heard the claim that Catholic Church was the one true church, but we all refused to believe it since we were told otherwise by our youth pastors.
I hope so. Your conversation with AvilaSurfer was not a pleasure to read. This one had better be better than that one.Thank you. I appreciate it. Looking forward to our dialogue.
I hope so. Your conversation with AvilaSurfer was not a pleasure to read. This one had better be better than that one.
By definition, one could argue that the Presbyterian Church also has the fullness of faith.
LOLOL - See why I dropped out?
This goes back to Cyprian. It's true. But it has to be understood with care. Augustine took up and modified the understanding in his dealings with the Donatists. They were holier than thou separatists who would have nothing to do with people who fell in the persecutions. They started their oun ecclesial body when the Catholic Church pardoned those who had apostasized in the persecutions. Augustine recognized the validity of the baptism of the Donatists even while pointing out how wrong, heretical, and schismatic they were. When we say 'outside the Church there is no salvation we MUST recognize the validity of Christian baptism among almost all Protestants. If you want to read more, find it in Augustine's 'On Baptism' subtitled 'Against the Donatists'.Perhaps you are right. Would you be so kind enough to explain to me the following statements in the Catechism?
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
"All salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is His Body."
True. Only in the Catholic Church is this true. The Orthodox do have all seven Sacraments. The Protestants one. Christ's Church subsists in the Catholic Church. That is where it is fully realized. But elements of Christ's Church exist in part elsewhere. This is the teaching of Lumen Gentium from Vatican II. The words are carefully chosen to say that the Catholic Church is the fullness of the Christian faith while allowing some real elements of the Christian faith in other places. Christ's Church does not subsist elsewhere, but there are elements of it, in particular valid baptism. That is why we refer to Protestant groups not as 'Churches' but as 'ecclesial communities', although we do refer to the Orthodox as Churches for they have all seven valid sacraments. If you want to read more, find Lumen Gentium, and Dominus Iesus. Also a good article: Christ's Church Subsists in the Catholic Church | EWTN"For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained"
Not without valid ordination. As a result they also have an invalid Eucharist, invalid confirmation, and they do not pretend to offer sacramental reconciliation, or a sacrament of healing. Their marriages are valid because the ministers of the sacrament are the man and woman marrying. Their baptisms are valid if they use natural water and baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They might have many other things going for them but they are not close to the fullness of faith with at best two sacraments.By definition, one could argue that the Presbyterian Church also has the fullness of faith.
I'm not sure yet. The reason I jumped in was I was seeing a teaching I did not recognize that Protestants were not saved unless they became Catholic. I am full well used to some Protestants saying I'm not saved because I'm Catholic. But not all Protestants think or say that. Catholicism is distinctive, and true. But we do not condemn to hell those who through no fault of their own are Christian but not Catholic. So I'll wait and see how the discussion develops before I come to the conclusion we are on the same page.After thoroughly reading everyone's replies, it appears that most of us are on the same page in respect to the roll of catholic church and the church catechism.
But we do not condemn to hell those who through no fault of their own are Christian but not Catholic.
So Baptism is all it takes?But they were chosen by Christ in baptism.
Only God condemns people to hell.But we do not condemn to hell those who through no fault of their own are Christian but not Catholic
So Baptism is all it takes?
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