Two trees...

orbiter

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Peace in Christ.

We are to hear and do God’s commandments and not to add unto the Word which is commanded and neither shall we diminish/remove from it.

But man has added many handwritings of ordinances (church constitutions, church bylaws, statements of faith, etc) and has placed them in their places of worship (where they should not be standing) in order to worship and serve them …to work and keep them instead of God’s commandments.

The churches handwritings of ordinances are patterned after the world’s documents (their governmental constitutions, etc) and are set up firmly and highly revered among their congregations as they are in the world. The world's handwritings are the "rudiments of the world"...the founding principles that are written down in their governmental handwritings of worldly men.

The church handwriting of ordinances have been fashioned in the likeness of the world’s handwritings which the outside world has set up to self-govern and to judge themselves as they do not follow after God and His authority. The world is not in the kingdom/government of God as we are and so they have made their own ways to self-govern themselves.

Deu 4:1-2 KJV
(1) Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
(2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


The handwriting of church ordinances that are made in the likeness of the outside world's documents have been passed down from generation to generation.

They are the “tradition”….that is, the transmission of men… being passed down in our churches. The transmissions of men are kept and worked instead of the keeping of the commandment of God who commanded us to have love for one another.

Mar 7:7-9 KJV
(7) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(8) For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men,
as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
(9) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


Again, the handwritings that are found in all churches are “graven images” that are patterned (in the likeness) after the world’s documents that they use to self-govern and judge themselves with. They are “other gods” …elohim = judges…as they use their handwritten “laws” to judge themselves with.

But we have a Living Judge….the LORD our God…our Judge who judges us according to His commandments and statutes and not man's handwritings.

The LORD thy God....the I AM our Judge.

Exo 20:1-6 KJV
(1) And God spake all these words, saying,
(2) I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
(3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:


These handwritings...the graven images... are passed down from generation to generation. They are the “traditions”….the transmissions of men…that are highly revered and being served.

(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

We are to keep His commandments and not the handwriting of church ordinances. The "other gods" are other judges...other commandments that are not God's.

(6) And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

“Touch not” (as the woman in the garden had added to God’s commandment and presented as God had commanded it) is code here in Colossians 2:21 for the added commandments and teachings of men (their handwriting of ordinances/dogmas) that many have willingly subjected themselves to keeping and working in their “church”.

Col 2:20-22 KJV
(20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
(21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

(22)
Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

The “rudiments”…the principles…of the world are their handwritings….the outside world’s founding principles as contained in their handwritten “constitutions” of their governments. God has allowed them to do these things for now. That "tree" is among us that the nations eat from.

We must not follow after them...the way of the nations of this world that do not know God...by making our own handwritings of self-government which are being used to judge other with.

Deu 12:30 KJV
(30) Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.


The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is among us as the “Adamah” …the people who are not part of God’s government (the kingdom of God)…have their handwritings to judge themselves with.

Gen 2:9 KJV
(9) And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


They need them to self-govern and judge themselves as they are not subjected to the government of God….the kingdom of God. They have made their handwritings their judges (other gods). We are not to make any “graven image”….a handwriting of ordinances…like the nations around us has.

We must not enquire after their “gods”….their handwritings of ordinances that they have set up for themselves to judge themselves instead of letting the Living Judge govern them. We must desire to do like the nations among us and have our own handwritings of men’s commandments set up in our churches.
.
Their “tree” is a dead tree. The “customs”…that is, the statutes…of the people are empty. The way of the nations around us to make handwritings to themselves in order to self-govern and judge themselves with. Yet, their handwritings …the rudiments of the world…are the work of people and not of God.

Jer 10:3-4
(3) For the customs (STATUTES) of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
(4) They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


Their “stock”…their tree..is a doctrine of vanities.

Jer 10:7-8
(7) Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
(8) But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock (TREE) is a doctrine of vanities.


We are dead with Christ from the “rudiments” of the world…the founding principles contained in the world’s constitutions which are used to self-govern and judge themselves with.

The woman in the garden desired to be seen as wise. Indeed, the keeping and working of the added handwriting of church ordinances/dogmas is a “show of wisdom” in will worship.

Many willingly and humbly subject themselves to their church handwritings as it makes them look like they are “wise” to others. They want to be seen as wise as they willingly subject themselves to their church handwritings of dogmas.

The serpent….the false prophet…comes to us in order to lead us away from the simplicity that is in Christ. They want to bring us into the bondage of keeping their church handwritings of ordinances…their “graven images” that they have made for themselves to worship and serve.

2Co 11:

(3) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The false prophet comes to lead us away from the keeping of the law of Christ to have love for one another and into the keeping of the transmissions of men (their church handwritings of ordinances) that are patterned after the “rudiments”…the founding principles…of the world as contained in their handwritings…their constitutions, etc. They want us to follow after the ways of the nations by the serving of their church constitutions and bylaws that they have made for themselves to serve and worship.

Their “another jesus” is being preached by them in the spirit of the antichrist and is being worshipped by an “image”…a handwriting of ordinances.

(4) For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(5) For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.


Do not let any main spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the transmission of men, after the rudiments/the principles of the world (the “tree” of the knowledge of good and evil among us) and not after Christ (the Tree of Life).

Col 2:8 KJV
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


The false prophet wants you to keep his church handwritings of ordinances rather than doing the commandment of God. The false prophet is preaching “another jesus” who is the “antichrist” rather than preaching the true Jesus who is THE Christ.

Those who “dwell on the earth” …those who are focusing on the things of the earth and not of the things which are above… are listening to the false prophets’ preaching of “another jesus” (who is a wild animal/beast and not a Lamb as the true Jesus who is the true Christ).

They should make or do an “image” to the beast (another jesus)....that is, follow after their handwriting of church ordinances.
Those who do not worship or follow after their church documents should be “killed”…that is, be judged according to their own church documents...their own standard.

They use their breath/spirit or voice to speak evil of another ("kill") who do not serve their church handwriting or "give life" to those who do. To serve their "image" gives you life...which is not true at all.

Rev 13:14-15 KJV
(14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


When we judge others using our church handwritings, we are being judge, jury and executioner of others (“killing”) and are not doing the will of God to have love for others….even for our enemies.

“Thou shall surely die”= literally translated: dying, you shall die…or rather “killing, you shall die”.

Gen 2:16-17 KJV
(16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
(17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


We cannot cast out others supposedly in HIS NAME/authority judging them as “devils” (this is not loving others). We MUST do His commandments. We MUST do His will.

Mat 7:21-23 KJV
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The serpent diminished or removed from God’s commandment “you shall surely die” by making it “you shall not surely die”.

You shall not die by killing another so the lie goes but we know that whoever lives by the sword shall die by it. We shall die by “killing” another in judgment. Judge not, lest you be judged.

Gen 3:4 KJV
(4) And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

“For God does know”….that is, we are doing it (judging supposedly in His name/authority) for Him.

“you shall be as gods”….that is, you shall be as judges (Elohim=judges) supposedly for God. A judge supposedly knows what is good and evil as measured by their own standards (their handwriting of ordinances).

Gen 3:5 KJV
(5) For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

This was what the woman did to God’s commandment. She added to it: “neither shall you touch it”. It became a basis to judge another.

Gen 3:1-3 KJV
(1) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
(2) And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
(3) But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die
.

The LORD God (the Living Judge) did not command “neither shall you touch it”.

The woman made “another god”….another judge…by doing so as THE true Living God…the true Living Judge… did not say it. She had presented that the true God had commanded it (“neither shall you touch it”) when He did not say it.
 
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oikonomia

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one tree, two perceptions of it ...
There were two trees representing two opposing ways or principles to follow.
The tree of life is to receive God's life into us.
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil to be independent from God leading to death and being joined to His enemy.

Ultimately one leads to the New Jerusalem.
UltimatelyThe other leads to the lae of fire.

Don't you see two trees mentioned in Genesis ?

And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, as well as the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (Gen. 2:9)
 
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oikonomia

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to the man it was a tree of life and to the women it was a tree of knowledge of good and evil ...
The man warned his wife that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was forbidden.
What God had forbidden him to eat Adam he passed on to his wife.
So says the woman to the subtle serpent when she referred to the tree in the middle of the garden.

But of the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden,
God has said, You shall not eat of it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die. (Gen. 3:3)


If by "the tree in which is in the middle of the garden" the "tree of life" (as you claim Adam saw it) was meant,
there was NO prohabition YET from God about that tree.


So the woman must have been referring to the tree for which there WAS a divine prohabition.

And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may eat freely,
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, of it you shall not eat;
for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. (Gen. 2:16,17)

So a proper understanding is that both Adam and his wife saw "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" as forbidden and leading to death. And both Adam and his wife saw "the tree of life" as not prohibited - not forbidden.

Now if as you say the same tree was viewed from two different viewpoints,
when Adam's wife encouraged her husband to join her in eating, God would not have condemned him for eating
what there was NO prohabition in eating.

And He [God] said, . . . Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat? (Gen. 3:11)

And to Adam He said, Because you listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree concerning which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it; Cursed is the ground because of you; . . . (Gen. 3:17)
 
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oikonomia

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when we add to the book (which we are warned not to) we then take away from it ....
You are a poster of few words . . .

So I guess that you are suggesting that it is "adding" to
the Bible to interpret that there were TWO specific trees mentioned in Genesis.
And you must be telling us that to not "take away" from the Bible is to interpret that only ONE
tree is mentioned with two viewpoints of it - one from the man and a different one from the woman.

The warning you mention you yourself ignore unless you really can defend well your interpretation.
On just your succinct say-so . . . I would reject your interpretation.
 
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You are a poster of few words . . .

So I guess that you are suggesting that it is "adding" to
the Bible to interpret that there were TWO specific trees mentioned in Genesis.
And you must be telling us that to not "take away" from the Bible is to interpret that only ONE
tree is mentioned with two viewpoints of it - one from the man and a different one from the woman.

The warning you mention you yourself ignore unless you really can defend well your interpretation.
On just your succinct say-so . . . I would reject your interpretation.
The tree of knowledge is the tree of reason ... as well as it is a tree that Jesus likened to the kingdom of God ....
 
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oikonomia

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The tree of knowledge is the tree of reason ... as well as it is a tree that Jesus likened to the kingdom of God ....
You seem to be moving to another discussion.

Before we move to another discussion do you want to explain why you
read Genesis and see one tree with two viewpoints of the same tree - the man's and the woman's.

It seems that you do not take the conjunction "AND" seriously in Genesis 2:9.

And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, as well as the tree of life in the middle of the garden . . . and . . . the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
(Gen. 2:9 my editing)
 
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You seem to be moving to another discussion.

Before we move to another discussion do you want to explain why you
read Genesis and see one tree with two viewpoints of the same.

It seems that you do not take the conjunction "AND" seriously in Genesis 2:9.

And out of the ground Jehovah God caused to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, as well as the tree of life in the middle of the garden . . . and . . . the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
(Gen. 2:9 my editing)

its both the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil, dependant on where one is viewing it from ...
 
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oikonomia

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its both the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil, dependant on where one is viewing it from ...
That is a theological analysis. Or it is a psychological even spiritual opinion.
I am interested first in your linguistic reasons.

Suppose I suggested that since both were seen in the middle of the garden, that perhaps their branches sometimes
overlapped?

Anyway, the language doesn't support how you think we should understand the two trees.
Even thinking how one tree was eaten and the other was then cut off to access doesn't make sense in your interpretation.

And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever —

Then Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to work the ground from which he was taken.


So He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life. (Gen. 3:22-24)
 
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That is a theological analysis. Or it is a psychological even spiritual opinion.
I am interested first in your linguistic reasons.

Suppose I suggested that since both were seen in the middle of the garden, that perhaps their branches sometimes
overlapped?

Anyway, the language doesn't support how you think we should understand the two trees.
Even thinking how one tree was eaten and the other was then cut off to access doesn't make sense in your interpretation.

And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever —

Then Jehovah God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to work the ground from which he was taken.


So He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life. (Gen. 3:22-24)
your view of this shows what tree you eat from ...
 
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oikonomia

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your view of this shows what tree you eat from ...
Still no linquistic justification.
Even if it is true of me, no justification in the TEXT you have.

Now maybe you were into Zen before you became a Christian.
I don't know.

But I am not impressed as much as I'd like to be that you have a textual case.
Your reluctance to justify your position is noted.
And I should probably gentlemanly, just not press you further.
 
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Still no linquistic justification.
Even if it is true of me, no justification in the TEXT you have.

Now maybe you were into Zen before you became a Christian.
I don't know.

But I am not impressed as much as I'd like to be that you have a textual case.
Your reluctance to justify your position is noted.
And I should probably gentlemanly, just not press you further.

there are two of everything in scripture, but both speak as one ( two perceptions/wittnesses ) but to see this you will have to be obedient and keep your eye single, which is one and the same as the chosen fast ...

those who keep the fig tree will eat the fruit thereof ....
 
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