Two really important questions

[JimB]

Why didn't you tell her to ask God about it?!!!

Look, you are right about our hearing not being all that great, and the Spirit of God is not the only spirit so discernment of spirits is needed, but does that mean we should stop hearing? NO NO NO - It just means we need to practice hearing from Him more and reading the Scriptures is important.

Did this lady really hear God about the healing?

Heck I heard the Lord tell me to go to a Christian healing room for my knee, about 5 years ago, and I got instantly healed. They prayed for it, it got hot, and my old surfing injury was healed instantly.

I'm glade I didn't have a pastor trying to stop me. I would still have a bad knee.


Jesus explained that with their ears they barely hear and with their eyes they don't see, otherwise they would turn back to Him and He would heal them. I got healed, but you told this lady not to believe that He would heal her son, and her son didn't get healed. So where is the problem???

My wife used to sing and help out with the Benny Hinn crusades, and I being from southern Calf, had seen them. I saw 500 people get healed. She was up close and saw the healing right before her eyes. I've talked to so many people that have been healed, that if someone, anyone was to tell me that they felt God told them to go to a Benny Hinn crusade and He would heal them, I would tell them go and believe and keep talking to Him so their faith in increased. But are there really others would tell them to not go and not believe?? What does that do to their faith and their healing?

The Scriptures explain that you can't please God without faith and that faith comes from hearing. But the Pharisees didn't hear the words of the Lord, and Jesus told them that straight up.

So was the lady's problem that she heard and went, or that those around her (even Christians leaders) told her that she wasn't hearing and cause doubt?

Not everything I hear from the Lord happens like I think, but if it doesn't I know who I can asked to find out why it didn't. And what I always find out is that even when I misunderstood, He even had a reason for that.

That lady will turn back to the one she heard. I know, because even when I felt things didn't turn out like I expected, I had to turn back to Him. He has the words of life. She will, and get an explaination. And I wouldn't blame her for not going back to a church who told her not to believe in God. I wouldn't blame her for not going to a church that preach "Biblical faith" instead of "Godly faith", and failed to reconize the difference.

The Lord is a bit like a "Lays Potatoe Chip" - once you have started hearing from Him, you have to turn back to Him for more. So yeah, that lady might be dissapointed now, but she'll turn back to Him, and if she does she'll find out that He was indeed God (maybe she just didn't quite understand exatcly what He was saying), But will she go back to that church that told her not to believe?? I wouldn't. He'd have to talk me into it, but I'd asked Him, "Lord, Why should I go listen to them, when they who say they believe, don't listen to you Lord?"

So explaining that God is a bit strange and doesn't always do things like we think, is fine, and telling someone to test the spritis is good, but telling people not to seek the voice of the Lord and believe is just plain wrong!!

Of course she didn’t hear God, but there was no way of convincing her otherwise.

BTW, have you ever read Romans 10.17 in another translation? All other translations except the KJV/NKJV say that faith comes from hearing “the word/message of/about/from CHRIST” (i.e., the Gospel, see below).

ASV: So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

AMP: So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

CEB: So, faith comes from listening, but it’s listening by means of Christ’s message.</SPAN>
CEV: No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.

ESV: So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

NCV: So faith comes from hearing the Good News, and people hear the Good News when someone tells them about Christ.

NIV: Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

NLV: So then, faith comes to us by hearing the Good News. And the Good News comes by someone preaching it.

NLT: So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.

WE: So people believe because they hear. They hear because people tell them about Christ.
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Faith is given (Rom. 12.3) only when we accept/receive the Gospel, not from believing a favorite scripture proof-text or through some imagined divine revelation. IMO, of course.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think Jim pointed out an important truth which is that we do need to be willing to re examine our understanding of the Bible from time to time. Not just pick one interpretation and stick with it to the death no matter what.

On the other hand , when we do have an experience with The Holy Spirit where the logos becomes Rhema , we need to be willing to be tested and go through persecution for the word's sake.

There is a time to re examine our convictions and a time to stick to our convictions in the face of opposition. My observation has been that many get their poles crossed on this issue. They defend a "sacred cow " which should be let go and let go of convictions that The Lord worked into their life as soon as it gets a little bit difficult.

With regards to the opening post. The Bible is a textbook , but it is also more than just a textbook. Studying the scripture is a good things to do. But without the Holy spirit's help we can get wrong understanding and without the Holy Spirit's help we can often have right understanding but fail to act upon it.

Many times we stumble over instructions in the Bible that are so simple , a child can understand them. An example is the command to forgive and not be bitter and judgmental towards people. Another example is the many rebukes about unbelief and the admonition to have faith. Do we really need to resolve all of the understanding of the Greek tense and all the ins and outs in order to choose to forgive someone ??

With all of that said , there are layers in the Bible. We can gain a surface understanding of a text but miss the deeper meanings if we fail to study.

I would ask a question. How many have ever had the Lord correct a "sacred cow " in your thinking about the Bible or God or something in the Christian life. I have and it often happens during times of prayer and worship.

The other question IU would ask is how many ask God to give understanding when thye read the Bible ? And as a follow up to that , how many believe that God will give understanding and thank Him for it ?

 

[JimB]

I think Jim pointed out an important truth which is that we do need to be willing to re examine our understanding of the Bible from time to time. Not just pick one interpretation and stick with it to the death no matter what.

On the other hand , when we do have an experience with The Holy Spirit where the logos becomes Rhema , we need to be willing to be tested and go through persecution for the word's sake.

There is a time to re examine our convictions and a time to stick to our convictions in the face of opposition. My observation has been that many get their poles crossed on this issue. They defend a "sacred cow " which should be let go and let go of convictions that The Lord worked into their life as soon as it gets a little bit difficult.

With regards to the opening post. The Bible is a textbook , but it is also more than just a textbook. Studying the scripture is a good things to do. But without the Holy spirit's help we can get wrong understanding and without the Holy Spirit's help we can often have right understanding but fail to act upon it.

Many times we stumble over instructions in the Bible that are so simple , a child can understand them. An example is the command to forgive and not be bitter and judgmental towards people. Another example is the many rebukes about unbelief and the admonition to have faith. Do we really need to resolve all of the understanding of the Greek tense and all the ins and outs in order to choose to forgive someone ??

With all of that said , there are layers in the Bible. We can gain a surface understanding of a text but miss the deeper meanings if we fail to study.

I would ask a question. How many have ever had the Lord correct a "sacred cow " in your thinking about the Bible or God or something in the Christian life. I have and it often happens during times of prayer and worship.

The other question IU would ask is how many ask God to give understanding when thye read the Bible ? And as a follow up to that , how many believe that God will give understanding and thank Him for it ?

I can’t say I always pray and ask the Lord to direct my understanding when reading the Bible, I just trust that the Holy Spirit guides me into truth, with or without my efforts. Through the years I have changed many of my views because of something I read (re-read) in the Bible, or heard someone say, or experienced some life-changing event, or whatever. The Spirit teaches us truth in many ways besides just the Bible. The Bible may teach us facts, but only the Spirit can teach us truth. IMO, you can know all the facts of the Bible and still miss the truth.

 

[probinson]

"Biblical text" are not words that God spoke to us, they are words that God spoke to others, that were written down for us!!

...

I preach a personal relationship with the Lord. A personal relationship means hearing from His small voice, not reading what others heard 2,000 years ago. It was presonal for them 2,000 ago, and it useful to me, but it is not personal to me. Listen to Him and you will surely understand, He is a personal God that can talk to you. The most common thing He tells me is, "I love you". I read about that many times in the Bible, but the first time I heard Him tell me that brought tears to my eyes which made stopping and the up coming stop sign difficult. That's personal.

I understand and mostly agree with what you're saying. I would agree with you that there are far too many people that have a boatload of scriptural knowledge with no personal relationship with their heavenly Father.

However, it seem to me that you've swung the pendulum too far in the other direction in an attempt to counter-balance this, but have in fact become somewhat unbalanced in the process.

For example, the text of Romans 10:9-10 says;

If you declare with your mouth, &#8220;Jesus is Lord,&#8221; and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
​

This is absolutely written directly to you and I! The scripture essentially says, "If you, K2K, or you, probinson, or you JimB, or you .... It's written to all of us, not just the people at that time. God is speaking directly to us, saying "If YOU..."

Yes, I absolutely agree that we should be led by and hear the voice of God in our lives today. Yes, I absolutely agree that we should have a personal relationship with Him. Yes, I absolutely agree that God wants to speak with each and everyone of us on a personal level. But IMO, you are severely downplaying the importance of what God has already said to us through the written scriptures.

 

[K2K]

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

It's absolutely amazing. They read the Bible, tell you the Scriptures are inerrant, tell you that you have to get to know Jesus Christ, and even tell you that you need to have a personal relationship with Him, but they don't hear from Him, and tell others that they aren't hearing from Him. And we see all these wonderful posts telling us all about Him, but they don't even talk to.

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

Yeah - they tell you to pray the Lord's prayer which has us asking God that His will be done hear on earth as it is in heaven, but they can't make the connection that He wants to talk to us and leads us along all day long, here on earth like in heaven.

Jn 10:4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.

So we follow the Lord by listening to His voice, but many say the Bible is His voice, 'we follow the Bible'.

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

They read it, but conclude that is not them. They tell us about Biblical faith, and how they are certain that others didn't hear from God, and even discourage those that do from believing they do, and think it is all fine. They just keep saying how well they know the Bible, but the Bible is testifying about the Lord who they won't talk to.

The Lord stopped me from working on my business this morning, asking me to post on the forum. He even told me exactly which thread to go to. Later, He again stopped me from working, and told me He needed me to post again. I was about to go to bed and was tired, but again He asked me to go back. Ugh - How is it that they post and don't realize that He wants to talk to them?

Doesn't He tell you to do things like that, or are you just doing what you want all the time. He talks to me about a dozen times a day. He has often had me go to a gas station when I didn't need gas, and Jehovah witness came up to me, giving me an opportunity to tell them about hearing from the Lord. They don't think He talks to people today. I can understand that, but how do Charismatic people who are studying the Bible not talk to Him through out the day? Apparently they are just like the Jews, who should have known to talk to Him and listen to what He says, but they took to searching the Scriptures because they were unwilling to listen to Him.

He often tells me what Scriptures to turn to when I spend my time with Him and the Bible in the morning. It's like a teaching telling you what chapter to open your book to. About a year ago, one morning He had me open to Ez 3 And He started reading to me out of the Bible, but He changed it slightly. He personalized the passage to me. It was clear that He was giving me the same type instructions that He gave to Ezekiel.

Ez 3:5 For you are not bing sent to a people of unintelligible speech of difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate. Behold, I have made your face as hard as their faces and your forehead as hard as their foreheads.

Listen - My only real message is telling people to listen to the Lord. You can hear Him. If you seek Him you will find Him. That applies to others also. Get up in the morning and start a conversation with Him. Ask Him if is it time to get up? That is what I normally say to Him in the morning. And I always hear a responce from that small peaceful voice of His. And if I don't get too busy, or just want to go where I want to go so refuse to listen to Him, I hear Him thoughout the day. The more I turn to listen for Him the more I hear Him, but He will talk to me a bunch of times even if I'm not paying attention. Just like today, where I was too busy to take time to listen to Him, but He stopped me a bunch of times.

So start listening to Him, then you won't start assuming people don't hear from Him. You will then start telling people about Him in earnest, and not just in lip service. Stop just saying the Lord is the Great I Am and start believing it. Yeah - He is not the only spirit so test the spirits, but if you are not hearing from Him who is always with you a number of times each and everyday, you had better look into your own relationship with Him. He is there, and I have not known Him to be rude, so as to not answer when you talk to Him with and expectation of hearing from Him.

Still - it is written 'with their ears they barely hear' so He might not come though too clear at times. With practice, He comes through clearer and clearer. So do others. So practice hearing helps you discern between good and evil.

Heb 5:14... who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Jn 13:13 You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am

A Lord is someone you get instructions from. And if that Lord is always with you and has a voice to talk to you, then you will hear the instructions. And a Teacher is someone who also instructs and educates. And the Teacher in the class room talks to you. But perhaps all the students are not listening? Or perhaps not all are His students?

Jn 8:47 He who is of god hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God

He told the above to some. Make sure that you are not them. Seek the Lord, and His voice!! He will have you study the Bible. The first words I heard from Him were, "READ YOUR BIBLE", but because He is the Teacher, you will hear Him review it with you. If you are not hearing the word of God spoken to you personally, and while you read the Scriptures, then you had better start seeking the Lord and Teacher Jesus Christ, and get into a personal relationship with Him.

I can't understand how anyone that listens to the Lord daily and thoughout the day and possibly talk about Biblical faith, because their faith will be in Him. How can someone think the Bible is the living Word when they hear daily from Him who is alive. Yeah He talked to those who wrote the Scriptures, but the Scritpures are not alive. How can someone hearing from Him the Scriptures are His words spoken to us? His small voice gives us the words of God spoken to us, the Bible has the words of God that were written down in the past.

And how can a pastor tell someone else that they are not hearing from God tell them He will heal them, when God said that if His people would harken to His voice He would heal the land.

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen to the instruction of the Lord.

Ex 15:26 And He said, "If you will give earnest heed to the voice of the Lord your God, and do what is right in His sight, and give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseaseson you which I ahve put on the Egyptians; for I , the Lord, an your healer."

So back to the OP- The Bible is like a textbook for the Lord our Teacher. We need to listen to Him. Your personal experience can't trump the Bible but only confirm the Bible, because the Bible is right. So if you are not hearing from the Lord God, the Great I Am, giving you instructions and teachings regularly, but you had better start seeking Him and His voice!! You had better make sure you are not searching the Scriptures thinking that give you life. You had better turn and seek Him, and His voice which His sheep hear!!

Well - I guess I've gone on long enough, with that forehead He gave me.

 

[Supreme]

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Thread has been clean up. Please be civil guys.

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