two problems with Calvinism that make no sense

[Anoetos]

The real problem is that Calvin was trying to make a statement about God's plan that is beyond his authority. He's basing his conclusions on scripture, but scripture is not the sole authority. The Church was given authority by the Holy Spirit, not by scripture. the Church has authority over scripture. It's when scripture is used outside of the Church's boundaries that we see the breaking down and multiplication of doctrine. The Reformation and it's effects are a testimony to this.

There is too much to address here, and it takes us well beyond the scope of this particular discussion.

Feel free to start a thread and I will be happy to engage you there as will, I am sure, my brethren.

 

[Skala]

We have to want to change though. God offers the grace. He shows Himself, but is not pushy for us to accept that gift.

You won't want to change without first being changed.

 

[twin1954]

The real problem is that Calvin was trying to make a statement about God's plan that is beyond his authority. He's basing his conclusions on scripture, but scripture is not the sole authority. The Church was given authority by the Holy Spirit, not by scripture. the Church has authority over scripture. It's when scripture is used outside of the Church's boundaries that we see the breaking down and multiplication of doctrine. The Reformation and it's effects are a testimony to this.

When this is re-established as the ask anybody a question then you may answer. As it is by the rues you have no right to answer for Calvinists.

 

[twin1954]

We have to want to change though. God offers the grace. He shows Himself, but is not pushy for us to accept that gift.

You do not understand the difference between an offer and a gift. God never offers salvation He gives it to whom He will. Salvation is never presented in the Scriptures as an offer but as a gift. The difference is in who closes the deal. If I offer you a bajillion whatevers you make it your possession when you take it. If I give you a bajillion whatevers I make it your possession when I give it to you. You accepting it has nothing to do with it being your possession. Offer and gift are not synonyms. A god who offers salvation is a figment of the depraved imagination of men. A God who actually saves is the God of the Bible. He never offers man anything because He doesn't need to.

To say that God isn't pushy is to not know God. I ask is the President of the United States pushy? Of course he is. He is the most powerful man in the world in this time of history. So was God not pushy with Pharaoh? Of course He was and Pharaoh was the most powerful man of his time in history. If God isn't pushy then none of us are saved. Again I stress that you need to find out who God actually is.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You do not understand the difference between an offer and a gift. God never offers salvation He gives it to whom He will. Salvation is never presented in the Scriptures as an offer but as a gift. The difference is in who closes the deal. If I offer you a bajillion whatevers you make it your possession when you take it. If I give you a bajillion whatevers I make it your possession when I give it to you. You accepting it has nothing to do with it being your possession. Offer and gift are not synonyms. A god who offers salvation is a figment of the depraved imagination of men. A God who actually saves is the God of the Bible. He never offers man anything because He doesn't need to.

To say that God isn't pushy is to not know God. I ask is the President of the United States pushy? Of course he is. He is the most powerful man in the world in this time of history. So was God not pushy with Pharaoh? Of course He was and Pharaoh was the most powerful man of his time in history. If God isn't pushy then none of us are saved. Again I stress that you need to find out who God actually is.

If you give me and gift I do not accept it AND once I do I can do with it what I will. God does not force us to change no He does not force us to change if I do not want to change I will NOT.

 

[twin1954]

If you give me and gift I do not accept it AND once I do I can do with it what I will. God does not force us to change no He does not force us to change if I do not want to change I will NOT.

So you are stronger than God. Nonsense. I forced my children to get up every morning and go to school because I love them. God most certainly forces His elect into changing but it is a loving forcefulness. He gives them a new will and a new want to.

Your whole argument is that God can't force you but you can force God. If God must wait for you then you are forcing Him to not be able to do what He wants to do. You are stronger than God in that scenario. Which is why I have said that you don't yet know who God is. If you did you would bow to Him instead of shaking your puny fist in His face.

 

[Don Maurer]

1. I KNOW we can CHOOSE to disobey God because I have and I have not WANTED His love even knowing He loves me. I DID NOT WANT it He does not force it on us.
Secondly, it does not make sense Christians are bunched together. In other words there are families that are Christians and some that are not so it would seem that He changes direction.

Objections to Non-Calvinism:
1- Rarely do Arminians make Biblical objections. There is always something that "does not make sense" to them about Calvinism. Arminianism is so very unexegetical.

2- Also, rarely do Arminians properly even take the time to understand Calvinism and its biblical views. This is illustrated by the first point in the OP. Calvinists over and over have said that the natural man has the ability to choose to disobey God. Yet what do I see in the OP, the author says he has a problem with Calvinism, why? Because he in his experience (not his exegesis) he wanted to disobey God. This is evidence that the author of the OP is clueless as to what Calvinism actually teaches.

Something I always enjoyed was Johnny Mac's statement that "we have the free will to follow any path of sin we desire." It is true, the old nature will desire to rebel, to follow some path of sin.

It would be a shock to me if some non-Calvinist actually took the time to read Calvinist literature for what we believe. I am guessing that the author of the OP cannot name one book he ever read written by Calvinists about Calvinism.

3 - In the thread, almost no one spoke of the "bunching together" argument. I cannot blame them, it is way to shallow.