Two party vs multi party systems

[RDKirk]

Okay, but we also have to acknowledge that the two party system is something that the two parties have created and insured by jointly guaranteeing, through law, that third parties will have almost no opportunity to establish themselves.

Even back in the early 1800s, it seems to have been difficult to sustain more than two significant parties at a time.

 

[Whyayeman]

'It's very possible that Trump lost Georgia because of the Libertarian Party.'

Yes, I see that, and thank you for the information about parties in USA.

What would that Georgia poll had been by Single Transferable Vote? We cannot know for certain, but we do know that many right-leaning voters are likely to support the Republican candidates despite their sympathy for Libertarian policies. Clearly 60,000 didn't and we will never know how many did.

I can't help wondering what the result would have been with STV.

The cockerel is in the oven and I need to check it. (This is not some English political slang, just Christmas dinner!)

A bientot

 

[Andrewn]

It's very possible that Trump lost Georgia because of the Libertarian Party. The Libertarians usually pull votes from the Republican Party, and the Libertarian Party got 60,000 votes in Georgia...'way over the difference between Trump and Biden.

Those who voted for the Libertarian party knew very well that Jorgensen would not become president of the US. Nevertheless, they chose him to make a statement rejecting both Biden and Trump. It was a negative statement against authoritarianism in general. There is no reason to assume that they would have voted for Trump.

These voters may have selected a Republican Party candidate other than a far-right Trumpist.

 

[Percivale]

The two party system is inevitable when you have a single plurality vote, winner take all, like we do. Most people don't choose to throw away their vote on someone unlikely to win, and instead vote for the lesser of two evils. In the 2016 primary I voted for my second least favorite candidate since he had the best chance to beat my least favorite. It's not right having a voting system that makes you do that. Ranked choice voting is the most popular way to fix that, approval voting would be the simplest way, and STAR voting (range with automatical runoff) is my favorite. Any of those would be so much better than what we have; one could support one's honest favorite as well as the one that can beat one's least favorite.

The US has had successful third parties twice. The Republican party replaced the Whig party, and the populist party gained numerous seats in legislatures and only faded away when the democratic party adopted most of their platform. I believe the American Solidarity party is likely to be successful sometime soon.

 

[RDKirk]

Those who voted for the Libertarian party knew very well that Jorgensen would not become president of the US. Nevertheless, they chose him to make a statement rejecting both Biden and Trump. It was a negative statement against authoritarianism in general. There is no reason to assume that they would have voted for Trump.

These voters may have selected a Republican Party candidate other than a far-right Trumpist.

Your last statement supports my point.

 

[Percivale]

Your last statement supports my point.

With ranked choice voting Trump may not have won the 2016 primary.

 

[Albion]

Albion, I thought there was a third party, the Progressive Party. I know almost nothing about the American system other than the stuff that appears on the international news.

Technically, yes. However, it was only on 2 state ballots this election year (out of 50 states and the District of Columbia) and drew only a few votes.

Are there other parties?

Oh yes, about a dozen worth naming, but with the exception of the Libertarian Party, none of these has been able to make it onto the ballots of very many states, and that is because of the very stringent rules governing third parties that (guess who?) the Republicans and Democrats in the state legislatures have crafted in order to suppress minor parties. Even when they are on the ballot, election officials have been known to order them off, simply on the basis of a claim that their identity or candidates are not known for certain.

Is there a Communist Party,

Yes. It doesn't have ballot status in any state and so endorsed Joe Biden in this past election.

a Socialist Party,

Yes, at least half a dozen small ones.

Are they legal?

All these tiny parties are legal, but for the most part they cannot qualify to run candidates.

Have a good Christmas!

and a very happy Christmas to you as well!

 

[Whyayeman]

Thank you for all that!

 

[9Rock9]

I used to defend the two party system a lot, but after these last four years, I think America could really benefit from having more parties.

 

[Whyayeman]

Well, I have learned that America already has more parties, but that they are small and fragmented. I am guessing that the Libertarian Party would be at the further reaches of the Republican party, so there is a ready constituency there. The socialist Parties would accommodate the left-leaning elements in the Democratic Party. There is a case for a centralist party which would straddle the moderate Democrats and Republicans.

So far so good. In order for these parties to gain some traction in the current bipartisan political climate, I think some electoral reform would help - maybe something like Georgia's system which insists on the winning candidate having 50%+ of the vote cast.

I notice that Congress is built after the French Assembly - representatives in a semicircle. Just the job for a multi-party system!

 

[Andrewn]

In order for these parties to gain some traction in the current bipartisan political climate, I think some electoral reform would help - maybe something like Georgia's system which insists on the winning candidate having 50%+ of the vote cast.

I'd prefer STV because it doesn't involve cumbersome runoffs. But, if this is not agreed upon, a system with runoffs as in Georgia would certainly be preferable to the current method. Definitely, things need to change.

 

[Percivale]

Most minor parties are far left or far right, so they'll never win anything unless we get proportional representation. But two young parties, the American Solidarity party and the Alliance party, appeal more to the center, so I think they have a better chance.

 

[Whyayeman]

I think that the minor parties need some representation in the legislature so that minority views can be expressed and heard. One consequence of feeling ignored played out in Washington and before the eyes of a horrified world the other day.

We should mention the Greens. Their views seem to be popular in the UK, and they have only miniscule representation in Parliament and in local government. I think they punch above their weight.

 

[Andrewn]

two young parties, the American Solidarity party and the Alliance party, appeal more to the center, so I think they have a better chance.

I don't remember hearing of these parties before. Perhaps they had candidates on the ballot but I didn't pay them attention for obvious reasons. I did a little bit of reading about them: the American Solidarity party is center-left and the Alliance party is center-right. They sound promising.

We should mention the Greens. Their views seem to be popular in the UK, and they have only miniscule representation in Parliament and in local government. I think they punch above their weight.

In Canada, in the latest elections the Green party received 6.6% of the vote and only 0.9% of seats, which doesn't give it official party status. Of course, results could have been different under another voting system.

 

[Percivale]

I don't remember hearing of these parties before. Perhaps they had candidates on the ballot but I didn't pay them attention for obvious reasons. I did a little bit of reading about them: the American Solidarity party is center-left and the Alliance party is center-right. They sound promising.


In Canada, in the latest elections the Green party received 6.6% of the vote and only 0.9% of seats, which doesn't give it official party status. Of course, results could have been different under another voting system.

I'm a member of the American Solidarity party; our presidential candidate was on the ballot in 8 states, up from 1 state in 2016. The Alliance and Reform parties shared a candidate, who was on the ballot in a few states.

 

[Andrewn]

I'm a member of the American Solidarity party; our presidential candidate was on the ballot in 8 states, up from 1 state in 2016. The Alliance and Reform parties shared a candidate, who was on the ballot in a few states.

I see that both parties had candidates in Michigan where I vote. The American Solidarity party's candidate was Brian Carroll. I don't know anything about him.

 

[Percivale]

I see that both parties had candidates in Michigan where I vote. The American Solidarity party's candidate was Brian Carroll. I don't know anything about him.

Here's a podcast interview of him. (#29)
‎The Con Con Pod on Apple Podcasts
I don't think he'll run again though, so the party platform is the main thing to consider.
Platform - American Solidarity Party

 

[Kalevalatar]

The world's most successful and prosperous, most stable, most transparent, best governed, least authoritarian, least corrupt, least unequal, freest, safest, and happiest countries are multi-party parliamentary democracies. Two-party systems like the United States and Zimbabwe cannot compete and inevitably lag behind in the "Good Country" indexes.

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."
- John Adams -​