two covenants

[pasifika]

The Law & the 10 commandments did not exist for another 430 years when God made Abraham righteous for his faith. Therefore we know that God imparts the righteousness based on faith apart from the law.

God promised that righteousness as an inheritance in the everlasting covenant to the seed of the father of many nations.

David also spoke of the man whom God credits righteousness apart from the law when he said “blessed are those who’s lawless deeds have been forgiven ... blessed is the man who’s sin the lord will not take into account.”

Hello, stand firm in your understanding...the law given in Mount Sinai based on ones effort... but the law of Spirit (Christ) is based on Faith..as you've said Abraham was justify by God through Faith...the law of Christ...

 

[Mercy74]

The Law & the 10 commandments did not exist for another 430 years when God made Abraham righteous for his faith. Therefore we know that God imparts the righteousness based on faith apart from the law.

God promised that righteousness as an inheritance in the everlasting covenant to the seed of the father of many nations.

David also spoke of the man whom God credits righteousness apart from the law when he said “blessed are those who’s lawless deeds have been forgiven ... blessed is the man who’s sin the lord will not take into account.”

We know that anything "purchased" with a CREDIT card must be repaid later. Yeshua was born under the law.

 

[JLB777]

Therefore, we must look to James 2:18 to best understand this passage. It says "show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works." In other words, genuine faith is demonstrated by works. It is not that works are required for salvation or righteousness. They are not. That isn't what this passage is saying. It is saying that works demonstrate that one has true, genuine faith. Faith alone makes one righteous.

We must have a common understanding about the law or principle of faith, to better understand the writings of the New Testament.


“Faith alone” is a misnomer, which James says “faith by itself” is dead.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
James 2:17-21


The key in this passage is found in verse 21 -


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?


Not the works of the law
Not good works
Not work that earns a wage

But the work or action of obedience.


Faith without this corresponding act of obedience is dead, being incomplete and unable to function to produce the intended Divine result.


This principle is found throughput the scriptures and especially in the book of Romans, where it begins and ends with the phrase “the obedience of faith”.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 26:16 KJV


Faith must have this “work” or action of obedience, or it is dead, dormant, incomplete, and unable to function, just as a body without a spirit is incomplete.


Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made (complete) perfect? James 2:22


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26



JLB

 

[JLB777]

The Law & the 10 commandments did not exist for another 430 years when God made Abraham righteous for his faith.

The law of Moses did not exist for another 430 years, however the Commandments are eternal and have always existed, as Abraham kept them by faith.



And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5




JLB

 

[Gup20]

A motor is a part of the car. Do you agree?

Yes.

 

[Gup20]

Faith is a variation of trust; the Law is part of what we trust or have faith in; the Law determines every thing the King and high Priest does.

[Gal 3:6-9 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

[Rom 4:11-16 NASB] 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. 16 For this reason [it is] by faith, in order that [it may be] in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,​

The law did not exist in Abraham's day. It came 430 years after God made His covenant of faith with Abraham. He did not have any faith in The Law. But Abraham did have faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ (as Gal 3:8 above says). According to Rom 4 we are considered Abraham's descendants and heirs of God's faith covenant with him if we have the same faith in the gospel that he had. Having the faith of Abraham qualifies us as his descendants.

 

[Gup20]

The law of Moses did not exist for another 430 years, however the Commandments are eternal and have always existed, as Abraham kept them by faith.



And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:4-5




JLB

Did he keep them by accident? Which ones did he follow before he was made righteous? Can you point to any scripture that says he followed the law prior to God making him righteous?

The only laws in existence at that time were do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and do not murder. The Law might be "eternal" but sin is not imputed before the law was given.

 

[Gup20]

We know that anything "purchased" with a CREDIT card must be repaid later. Yeshua was born under the law.

It was "credited" because Jesus hadn't come yet to pay for it with his own righteousness.

[2Co 5:21 NASB] 21 He made Him who knew no sin [to be] sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

[Gal 3:13-14 NASB] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"-- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.​

The Law verified Christ as righteous. He gave up that righteousness by submitting to death, and that righteousness went to Abraham. That righteousness then becomes an inheritance to all of Abraham's descendants... especially those who are of the same faith as Abraham.

 

[JLB777]

Did he keep them by accident? Which ones did he follow before he was made righteous? Can you point to any scripture that says he followed the law prior to God making him righteous?

The only laws in existence at that time were do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and do not murder. The Law might be "eternal" but sin is not imputed before the law was given.

I’m not saying Abraham was made righteous by keeping the commandments.


My only point was that the commandments were kept by Abraham, 430 years before the law was added.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Did he keep them by accident? Which ones did he follow before he was made righteous? Can you point to any scripture that says he followed the law prior to God making him righteous?

The only laws in existence at that time were do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and do not murder. The Law might be "eternal" but sin is not imputed before the law was given.

Again, obviously the commandments were given to Abraham, as he learned them the way Adam was supposed to; The way all mankind is supposed to.


Learning directly from the Lord Himself. By faith.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

The Law might be "eternal" but sin is not imputed before the law was given.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam...




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Can you point to any scripture that says he followed the law prior to God making him righteous?

Which law?


The law of Moses wasn’t added for another 430 years.


Abraham was justified by the law of faith.


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him,
Genesis 12:1-4


This is where Abraham obeyed the Gospel.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Anything not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). Everyone who sins is breaking G-d's law (1 John 3:4). So faith is a "part" of the law.

The law is not of faith.


Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12




JLB

 

[pasifika]

The law is not of faith.


Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12




JLB

Hello, thank you putting this out there, the two laws, (1) "Law "-given in Sinai and it requirements which is according to our own effort to follow it as you referred to in Galatians 3:12...
(2) Law of Christ or Spirit...this is required us to 'believe' in the Gospel of Jesus and that is Faith...

So, yes the 'Law' (Moses) is not based on Faith but our own effort or works if we are to follow it...

 

[Gup20]

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam...




JLB

The "likeness of Adam's transgression" means they didn't eat from the forbidden fruit in the garden, but they died nonetheless. That is because The Curse (the punishment for Adam's sin) was a universal, corporate judgement. All of creation was punished for Adam's sin, even though all of creation didn't commit the sin. The Law came to create a way where someone could be declared righteous, but no one was able to keep it until Christ. Once there was one righteous person, then Adam's universal judgement (death & the curse) has to be repealed in lieu of individual judgments (that is what the great white throne judement is -- an individual judgment).

 

[Gup20]

Hello, thank you putting this out there, the two laws, (1) "Law "-given in Sinai and it requirements which is according to our own effort to follow it as you referred to in Galatians 3:12...
(2) Law of Christ or Spirit...this is required us to 'believe' in the Gospel of Jesus and that is Faith...

So, yes the 'Law' (Moses) is not based on Faith but our own effort or works if we are to follow it...

The Gospel was first believed by Abraham:

[Gal 3:6-9 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.​

God made him righteous for believing the gospel, and when we believe the gospel we are considered descendants and heirs according to the promise God gave Abraham. Our faiht doesn't qualify us for righteousness so much as it qualifies us as a descendant, and descendants inherit righteousness.

 

[Gup20]

Which law?


The law of Moses wasn’t added for another 430 years.


Abraham was justified by the law of faith.


Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him,
Genesis 12:1-4


This is where Abraham obeyed the Gospel.




JLB

Abraham also violated the 10 commandments... for example when he bore false witness and claimed Sarah was his sister (twice).

 

[JLB777]

The "likeness of Adam's transgression" means they didn't eat from the forbidden fruit in the garden, but they died nonetheless. That is because The Curse (the punishment for Adam's sin) was a universal, corporate judgement. All of creation was punished for Adam's sin, even though all of creation didn't commit the sin. The Law came to create a way where someone could be declared righteous, but no one was able to keep it until Christ. Once there was one righteous person, then Adam's universal judgement (death & the curse) has to be repealed in lieu of individual judgments (that is what the great white throne judement is -- an individual judgment).

The human race received the sin of Adam, and the death that was passed down to all generations as it is today.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12


No one was ever made righteous through the law.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Abraham also violated the 10 commandments... for example when he bore false witness and claimed Sarah was his sister (twice).

Sarah was his sister.


Abraham did not lie.




JLB

 

[pasifika]

The Gospel was first believed by Abraham:

[Gal 3:6-9 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.​

God made him righteous for believing the gospel, and when we believe the gospel we are considered descendants and heirs according to the promise God gave Abraham. Our faiht doesn't qualify us for righteousness so much as it qualifies us as a descendant, and descendants inherit righteousness.

Hello, yes the Gospel was given when Adam and Eve fell in Genesis 3:15...God said..." I will put enmity between you (serpent) and woman and between your seed and hers...
This is the same seed was promised to Abraham in Genesis 12:7...that seed is Christ as in Galatians...
Faith is believing in that message regarding Christ...

So, in. Hebrews 11:4-7... gives name of those before Abraham which were living by Faith just as Abraham..ie Abel, Enoch, Noah etc