Twisted Scripture (False Doctrines)

[stan1953]

I have no problem with whoever. That doesn't change anything.

It should, as whoever is not the same as all. All sheep are not saved, only those that enter through the gate of Jesus Christ.

 

[stan1953]

He doesn't need to decide. He knows who are sheep and who are goats. All He's doing is separating them. And then demonstrates that sheep act like sheep, and goats act like goats.

No what it demonstrates is that sheep and goats look alike until Jesus sees them.
Matthew 25:32 is Jesus confirmed the prophecy in Ezek 34:17; “‘As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats."

 

[stan1953]

Since Jesus' disciples had only only seen sheep used as referring to God's people, why would they suddenly understand that sheep mean all of humanity?

I guess because He said, I have OTHER sheep NOT of this fold. John 10:16.
Kind of opens it up a bit no?

 

[Hammster]

It should, as whoever is not the same as all. All sheep are not saved, only those that enter through the gate of Jesus Christ.

His sheep hear His voice. Of course they'll enter in.

 

[Hammster]

I guess because He said, I have OTHER sheep NOT of this fold. John 10:16.
Kind of opens it up a bit no?

It sure does. Those would be the Gentile sheep.

 

[stan1953]

His sheep hear His voice. Of course they'll enter in.

You're putting the cart before the horse.
John 10 says nothing about entering by him because they hear his voice.
Once they are his sheep then they know and hear his voice, NOT before.

 

[Hammster]

No what it demonstrates is that sheep and goats look alike until Jesus sees them.
Matthew 25:32 is Jesus confirmed the prophecy in Ezek 34:17; “‘As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats."

Let's pretend you're right. Sheep are still sheep, and goats are still goats, regardless whether or not they look alike (which is a strange claim, indeed.

 

[stan1953]

It sure does. Those would be the Gentile sheep.

Right so not only God's people/The Jews.

 

[Hammster]

You're putting the cart before the horse.
John 10 says nothing about entering by him because they hear his voice.
Once they are his sheep then they know and hear his voice, NOT before.

The cart and horse are in the correct order.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers." This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them. So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. (John 10:1-9 NASB)

 

[Hammster]

Right so not only God's people/The Jews.

I never said anything about the Jews.

So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. (Colossians 3:12, 13 NASB)

That's from a letter to a Gentile church.

 

[stan1953]

Let's pretend you're right. Sheep are still sheep, and goats are still goats, regardless whether or not they look alike (which is a strange claim, indeed.

Guess you're missing the point that the sheep and goats themselves don't know the difference. Can you tell by looking who a sheep or goat in your church is?
Sheep and goats are often herded together, and FYI it is very rare that they cross breed. They are called Geeps or Shoats and are usually stillborn.

Just a little geek factoid for you.

 

[stan1953]

The cart and horse are in the correct order.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers." This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them. So Jesus said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. (John 10:1-9 NASB)

So you read verse 9 and still don't understand what Jesus is saying? We're talking about sheep that are saved right, so please try to stay on point.

 

[Hammster]

Guess you're missing the point that the sheep and goats themselves don't know the difference. Can you tell by looking who a sheep or goat in your church is?
Sheep and goats are often herded together, and FYI it is very rare that they cross breed. They are called Geeps or Shoats and are usually stillborn.

Just a little geek factoid for you.

I'm not the shepherd. I don't need to discern. But the fact still remains, which you are actually affirming, that sheep are sheep. And the sheep are saved. Nothing give said has given refutation to the assertion that sheep are always God's people.

 

[stan1953]

I never said anything about the Jews.
So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. (Colossians 3:12, 13 NASB)
That's from a letter to a Gentile church.

We were discussing what Jesus said, not Paul. Your propensity to muddy the waters is very disturbing.
God's people in your response were the Jews. I'm not sure why I have to keep you on point all the time?

 

[Hammster]

So you read verse 9 and still don't understand what Jesus is saying? We're talking about sheep that are saved right, so please try to stay on point.

I read verse 9 in context. And yes, once sheep enter through the door (because they heard the shepherd) are saved.

 

[stan1953]

I'm not the shepherd. I don't need to discern. But the fact still remains, which you are actually affirming, that sheep are sheep. And the sheep are saved. Nothing give said has given refutation to the assertion that sheep are always God's people.

of course you're not the shepherd. There is only one shepherd. The facts are that there are sheep and there are goats and that only Christ knows who they are. Some sheep are saved and are part of the flock and no goats are saved even though they are part of the flock.
Lost sheep are not saved and not part of the flock.

 

[stan1953]

I read verse 9 in context. And yes, once sheep enter through the door (because they heard the shepherd) are saved.

That can't be because Jesus Himself said the sheep can only come to the shepherd as the father draws them. You seem to want to disconnect everything to make a single point?

 

[Hammster]

We were discussing what Jesus said, not Paul. Your propensity to muddy the waters is very disturbing.
God's people in your response were the Jews. I'm not sure why I have to keep you on point all the time?

It appears you are confusing God's people as a whole with what I was saying. Jesus' immediate audience were Jews. So there understanding of sheep would have been to understand them as God's people. Of course we learn from Paul that they had a misunderstanding of who God's people were. And Jesus even affirmed that He had other sheep.

 

[Hammster]

of course you're not the shepherd. There is only one shepherd. The facts are that there are sheep and there are goats and that only Christ knows who they are. Some sheep are saved and are part of the flock and no goats are saved even though they are part of the flock.
Lost sheep are not saved and not part of the flock.

You've introduced a non-existent category: lost sheep that won't be saved. I'd like to see some biblical evidence for that.

 

[Hammster]

That can't be because Jesus Himself said the sheep can only come to the shepherd as the father draws them. You seem to want to disconnect everything to make a single point?

Where is that in chapter 10?