Twisted Scripture (False Doctrines)

FreeGrace2 · May 6, 2014

THIS said:
You are in denial of what is plainly and clearly written.

Well, that is exactly the problem. What is "plainly and clearly written"? None of the verses you provided "plainly and clearly" state that salvation can be lost. But you just think they mean that.

If salvation could be lost, by whatever means, it should be obvious to all that the Holy Spirit would have made that crystal clear with direct statements to that effect.

What you are doing is taking warning passages and applying them to loss of salvation. And you have demonstrated that you don't understand the issue of blessings and reward. Those are what can be lost, not salvation.

Did Jesus Christ die for ALL the sins of ALL people or not? Even if you side with Calvinists who don't believe He died for everyone, did He die for ALL the sins of those He died for?

If He did, then there isn't ANYTHING that anyone can do that hasn't already been paid for. So your whole view is faulty.

And it is proven faulty by the fact that there are no verses that plainly tell us that one's salvation can be lost.

You dismissed the relationship between Father and child. The Bible makes that connection very clearly (Jn 1:12, Gal 3:26). Believers are called the children or sons of God. That IS relationship.

In any physical relationship between Father and child, it is permanent and cannot be broken. But the fellowship between Father and child may be broken. This is quite obvious.

Just as there is physical relationship between Father and child, there is spiritual relationship between Father and child (the believer).

You have not refuted this point. Your denial or rejection of it doesn't equate to a refutation. And you have no Scripture to back up your position.

The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift. Isa 55:1, Rev 22:17, Rom 6:23, Ephg 2:8,9

The Bible teaches that works pleasing to God shall be rewarded. Matt 10:42, 2 Tim 4:7-8, Rev 22:12, 1 Cor 9:24-25, Luke 19:17, 1 Cor 3:11-15, Rev 2;10.

The Bible teaches that salvation is apresent possession. Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47, 2 Tim 1:9, Titus 3:5, 1 Jn 5:11.

The Bible teaches that rewards are bestowed in the future. Matt 16:27, Luke 14:14, Rev 22:12, 1 Pet 5:4, 2 Tim 4:8, Matt 25:19.

Those who teach loss of salvation are in conflict with Scripture and miss out completely on the doctrine of rewards for service, which is what believers are called to do. Eph 2:10.

Salvation is not earned. Rewards are earned.

THIS · May 6, 2014

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]Well, that is exactly the problem. What is "plainly and clearly written"? None of the verses you provided "plainly and clearly" state that salvation can be lost. But you just think they mean that.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It does say what is says. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If we are not doing things that please the Lord in this life, then what kind of life is it?[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

If salvation could be lost, by whatever means, it should be obvious to all that the Holy Spirit would have made that crystal clear with direct statements to that effect.

What you are doing is taking warning passages and applying them to loss of salvation. And you have demonstrated that you don't understand the issue of blessings and reward. Those are what can be lost, not salvation.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I tell you, you are describing yourself.[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

Did Jesus Christ die for ALL the sins of ALL people or not? Even if you side with Calvinists who don't believe He died for everyone, did He die for ALL the sins of those He died for?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I go against the false teachings of Calvinism. Jesus died for all sins of the whole world.[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

If He did, then there isn't ANYTHING that anyone can do that hasn't already been paid for. So your whole view is faulty.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The person has to be sorry for their sins! The person has to repent of their sins![/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

And it is proven faulty by the fact that there are no verses that plainly tell us that one's salvation can be lost.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]NOT TRUE.[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

You dismissed the relationship between Father and child. The Bible makes that connection very clearly (Jn 1:12, Gal 3:26). Believers are called the children or sons of God. That IS relationship.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We have to eat Jesus every day. Eating Jesus happens when we OBEY JESUS.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]
In any physical relationship between Father and child, it is permanent and cannot be broken. But the fellowship between Father and child may be broken. This is quite obvious.

Just as there is physical relationship between Father and child, there is spiritual relationship between Father and child (the believer).

You have not refuted this point. Your denial or rejection of it doesn't equate to a refutation. And you have no Scripture to back up your position.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Again, I ask, if you are not obeying and living through the Spirit, if you have fallen from grace, then what are you doing? What kind of life do you have?[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift. Isa 55:1, Rev 22:17, Rom 6:23, Ephg 2:8,9[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Salvation is a gift; it means that we do not have to bring an animal to sacrifice. It means we do not have to be circumcised, and to circumcise. It means we do not have to adhere to a dietary law. It means that we do not have to observe special days. We do not have to do various external washings that the Jews used to have to do. We are the temple of the Living God. [/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

The Bible teaches that works pleasing to God shall be rewarded. Matt 10:42, 2 Tim 4:7-8, Rev 22:12, 1 Cor 9:24-25, Luke 19:17, 1 Cor 3:11-15, Rev 2;10.[/FONT]

From the scriptures, I see that the gift, the reward, the inheritance, the treasure, the crown, the promise…it is all eternal life in the kingdom of God.

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]
The Bible teaches that salvation is apresent possession. Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47, 2 Tim 1:9, Titus 3:5, 1 Jn 5:11.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Oh yes it is.
[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]
The Bible teaches that rewards are bestowed in the future. Matt 16:27, Luke 14:14, Rev 22:12, 1 Pet 5:4, 2 Tim 4:8, Matt 25:19.

Those who teach loss of salvation are in conflict with Scripture and miss out completely on the doctrine of rewards for service, which is what believers are called to do. Eph 2:10.

Salvation is not earned. Rewards are earned. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus. Obeying Jesus is how we eat Jesus, how we live through Jesus, how we are clothed with Jesus.[/FONT]

THIS · May 6, 2014

Bro in Christ said:
He believed that JC was God after hours of insulting him JC was silent ..... that was the work of God that he did believe just like Peter in Matt 16

Matt 11:20-24 shows that with a simple message some get EL and others eternal judgement .... at God wills ... connect romans 9

You do not believe God's Truth, you believe the false doctrines of Calvinism.

There is no scripture anywhere that says what you say.

Bro in Christ · May 6, 2014

funny .... Calvinism believes in works which is against bible

what is God's truth to you?

THIS · May 6, 2014

Bro in Christ said:
funny .... Calvinism believes in works which is against bible

what is God's truth to you?

Calvinism is false.

We have to believe and obey Jesus' teachings.

The works we do not have to do anymore are to be circumcised and to circumcise, to give animal sacrifices, etc.

People misunderstand what Paul means when he says no works.

Paul is NOT saying NO OBEY.

Peter says people misunderstand Paul, and then Peter warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 2 Peter 3:17.

nobdysfool · May 6, 2014

One should know what they are opposing, before they oppose it. Making statements like "Calvinism is false" or "the false doctrines of Calvinism" shows that the speaker does not know the subject. If it was false doctrine, it would have died out long before now, some 500 years later.

The Gospel is positive for those who believe it. But here we have those who would impose extra burdens on Christians, and try to make them fear for their salvation every day. Is that the yoke that Jesus spoke about, an easy and light yoke, to replace the oppressive and burdensome yoke they had before faith in Him?

Should Christians obey the Lord in all things? Of course! But true Christians do so willingly, they don't have to be brow-beaten into it! they don't have to be bombarded with negative stuff trying to call into question their very salvation. Those that are doing such things are miserable for some reason, and want everyone else to be as miserable and fearful as themselves. Flee from such people, they are not showing the Light of Christ, but the darkness of forced works.

stan1953 · May 6, 2014

I personally don't see the rational of saying if something is a false teaching it will die out? Arianism is a false teaching and it still exists and flourishes.
What is evident though is that those who do get caught up in false teaching are loathe to admit it.
Only by addressing ALL scripture, can we hope to see what the Holy Spirit is telling us. If we close our eyes to ANY scripture, then we are ignoring what Jesus said;...let those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, see what the Holy Spirit is teaching us.

nobdysfool · May 6, 2014

FreeGrace2 · May 6, 2014

THIS said:
[FONT=&quot]It does say what is says. [/FONT]

Correct. My point as well. There are NO verses that plainly tell us that salvation can be lost.

[FONT=&quot]If we are not doing things that please the Lord in this life, then what kind of life is it?[/FONT]

A poor life, to be sure. But that doesn't cause loss of salvation.

[FONT=&quot]I go against the false teachings of Calvinism. Jesus died for all sins of the whole world.[/FONT]

OK, you're an Arminian. And I strongly disagree with your view of loss of salvation.

[FONT=&quot]The person has to be sorry for their sins! The person has to repent of their sins![/FONT]

To be saved???? Please show me a clear verse that says so. There are plenty of verses that link faith for salvation. Nothing about being "sorry" for sins. Since Christ died for our sins, they are paid for. Having emotions for sin is a waste of time. We need to be extremely grateful that He did die for our sins.

What's the point of having a pity party? What good does that good?

[FONT=&quot]NOT TRUE.[/FONT]

You have failed to provide any verses that plainly say that salvation can be lost. The record is zero. What I've said is true. Your disagreement changes nothing.

If the Bible taught loss of salvation, why aren't there any clear statements about it? There are many warnings, but none are about loss of salvation.

[FONT=&quot]We have to eat Jesus every day. Eating Jesus happens when we OBEY JESUS.[/FONT]

OK, weird description, but I understand from John 5. Yes, believers are commanded to obey Jesus. It's what we were called to do. But this has nothing to do with loss of salvation.

[FONT=&quot]Again, I ask, if you are not obeying and living through the Spirit, if you have fallen from grace, then what are you doing? What kind of life do you have?[/FONT]

It's a disobedient life, and the believer faces God's discipline (Heb 12). Still, nothing about loss of salvation.

[FONT=&quot]Salvation is a gift; it means that we do not have to bring an animal to sacrifice. It means we do not have to be circumcised, and to circumcise. It means we do not have to adhere to a dietary law. It means that we do not have to observe special days. We do not have to do various external washings that the Jews used to have to do. We are the temple of the Living God. [/FONT]

OK, thanks for agreeing with my point.

From the scriptures, I see that the gift, the reward, the inheritance, the treasure, the crown, the promiseit is all eternal life in the kingdom of God.

Well, seems you are just "seeing" things. Things that aren't there. Rewards can be lost.

2 John 1:8
Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

Maybe this verse doesn't impress you, but I impresses me a lot.

[FONT=&quot]Oh yes it is.[/FONT]

Again, thanks for agreeing with me.

[FONT=&quot]It is never ever wrong to obey Jesus. Obeying Jesus is how we eat Jesus, how we live through Jesus, how we are clothed with Jesus.[/FONT]

Why are you telling me that it is never wrong to obey Jesus. Of course. Have you actually been reading anything I've written? Your comments seem quite off the wall from what I posted.

Please read my posts before posting. It'll save a lot of time.

stan1953 · May 6, 2014

FreeGrace2 said:
There are NO verses that plainly tell us that salvation can be lost.

I suppose it depends on how you read the Bible. If you're not looking for it, it can be hard to find.

Matthew 5:13
You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how will it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled under foot by people."

Just exactly what do you think Jesus was referring to here?

THIS · May 6, 2014

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]Correct. My point as well. There are NO verses that plainly tell us that salvation can be lost.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I gave you many scriptures that plainly and clearly say we can lose our salvation.[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A poor life, to be sure. But that doesn't cause loss of salvation.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A poor life, you say. It means you have lost salvation.[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]OK, you're an Arminian. And I strongly disagree with your view of loss of salvation.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am not Arminian. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I go against the teachings of men.[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The person has to be sorry for their sins! The person has to repent of their sins![/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To be saved???? Please show me a clear verse that says so.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. Those who would come to Jesus had first to repent of their sins.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We still have to repent to prepare the way for Jesus into our hearts.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have to first repent of our sins.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 2:38 Peter replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach this message: Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 11:21 Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If Jesus saves people without repentance---then why is Jesus rebuking Chorazin and Bethsaida?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 12:41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented when Jonah preached to themand now, something greater than Jonah is here![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 4:12 so that although they look they may look but not see, and although they hear they may hear but not understand, so they may not repent and be forgiven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 3:19 Therefore repent and turn back so that your sins may be wiped out,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Did you read Acts 3:19? If they are already saved then why are their sins not already wiped out?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 17:30 Therefore, although God has overlooked such times of ignorance, he now commands all people everywhere to repent,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have much more to say about repenting before being saved, and I would love to tell you more about it.[/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] There are plenty of verses that link faith for salvation. Nothing about being "sorry" for sins. Since Christ died for our sins, they are paid for. Having emotions for sin is a waste of time. We need to be extremely grateful that He did die for our sins.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nothing you said is scriptural.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The scriptures that tell us to have faith, they do not nullify the scriptures that say obey. We do have to be sorry for our sins. [/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]
OK, weird description, but I understand from John 5. Yes, believers are commanded to obey Jesus. It's what we were called to do. But this has nothing to do with loss of salvation.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If you do not eat the flesh of Jesus by obeying him, then how are you going to have life? His words are life.[/FONT]
John 6:63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why are you telling me that it is never wrong to obey Jesus. Of course. Have you actually been reading anything I've written? Your comments seem quite off the wall from what I posted.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You are going against me for saying we have to obey Jesus to be saved, and to stay saved![/FONT]

FreeGrace2 said:
[FONT=&quot]

Please read my posts before posting. It'll save a lot of time.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stop being rude and making false accusations.[/FONT]

THIS · May 6, 2014

stan1953 said:
I suppose it depends on how you read the Bible. If you're not looking for it, it can be hard to find.

Matthew 5:13
You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how will it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled under foot by people."

Just exactly what do you think Jesus was referring to here?

I would like to know too what FreeGrace2 thinks that scripture means.

FreeGrace2 · May 7, 2014

stan1953 said:
I suppose it depends on how you read the Bible. If you're not looking for it, it can be hard to find.

This actually goes both ways. Some come to Scripture looking for what supports their view, even when it isn't there.

For example: Heb 2:9 says quite plainly that Jesus tasted death for all. Not "some". Not "the elect". Not "believers only". So, when a Calvinist comes to that verse, they, because of their bias that He didn't die for everyone, must look for something to define "all" by. So they go to v.10, even though v.10 begins a new paragraph and new thought.

In fact, one of the Calvinists on CF acknowledged that when one reads Heb 2:9, the question that comes to mind is this: "all of what group]"? That in itself demonstrates the bias of Calvinism. He already believed that Christ didn't die for everyone, so he must assume the "all" cannot mean everyone, but rather must refer ONLY to some group. Aha! There it is, v.10. See? He died for "all the many sons". That's what the "all" means in v.9. Ridiculous!

Just exactly what do you think Jesus was referring to here? (Matt 5:13)

Believers who aren't living out their faith towards others are useless and will not be used by God.

iow, salt is only useful when it is actually salty.

FreeGrace2 · May 7, 2014

THIS said:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I gave you many scriptures that plainly and clearly say we can lose our salvation.[/FONT]

Stop it. No, you haven't.

[FONT=&quot]A poor life, you say. It means you have lost salvation.[/FONT]

That's the problem. You are assigning what Scripture SAYS to what you think it MEANS. As you acknowlege here. It doesn't mean what you think it means.

And my point still stands. There are NO verses that plainly SAY that salvation can be lost. None at all.

[FONT=&quot]We have to first repent of our sins.[/FONT]

Before "what", exactly? When the jailer asked Paul what he must do to be saved, Paul didn't say anything about his sins, or repenting. Paul told him to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and he would be saved. Very clear.

[FONT=&quot]You are going against me for saying we have to obey Jesus to be saved, and to stay saved![/FONT]

I "go against" anyone who posts false doctrine, as you are.

And you still haven't given any verses that say we have to obey to stay saved. In fact, there are verses that guarantee our eternal destiny.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stop being rude and making false accusations.[/FONT]

I wasn't being rude. You posted some erroneous things, which indicated that you didn't actually read, or maybe understand my posts. If there is something you don't understand, don't assume something that isn't true. Ask a question rather than post what you thought I meant.

I will always correct errors of those who ascribe to me what isn't my view.

To summarize, the problem is that you assign a MEANING to verses that don't SAY what you think they mean.

If loss of salvation were possible, I have no doubt that there would be very clear verses about that. And, there are NO verses that SAY anything about loss of salvation.

All the warning passages are about something else, not loss of salvation. But you are free to hold to whatever view you'd like. It's just that you can't support your view from Scripture.

I can support OSAS from Scripture.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvationhaving also believed (aorist), you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Now, to refute my view, you must demonstrate that this "sealing of the Holy Spirit" can be broken in some way from Scripture.

Rom 8:35-39
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36Just as it is written,
For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;
We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.
37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The passage begins with the question: who will separate us (saved ones) from the love of Christ? Included in the exhaustive list of who CAN'T separate us is both "things present and things to come".

Paul is telling us that nothing in the present or FUTURE will be able to separate us from God's love. What can be included in the FUTURE? Whatever happens, including those who, like the second soil that Jesus mentioned in Luke 8:13, lose their faith. Even that won't separate us from the love of Christ.

If that isn't clear enough, consider 1 Thess 5:1-10. The context compares unbelievers and their lifestyle (v.6,7) with believers, who are NOT to be like unbelievers in their lifestyle, but to be self controlled, putting on faith and love (v.8). Then, Paul concludes with this:

1 Thessalonians 5:10
who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Considering the fact that Paul was comparing lifestyles between believers and unbelievers, the terms "awake" and "asleep" in v.10 refer to those lifestyles.

Yet, Paul makes the clear point: "WHETHER we are awake or asleep, we WILL live together with Him". I don't see how that could be any more clear.

These are verses that do SAY that salvation is guaranteed. btw, "living together with Him" is just another way of referring to eternity with Christ, or salvation.

extraordinary · May 7, 2014

nobdysfool said:
If it was false doctrine, it would have died out long before now, some 500 years later.

Sorry, but you are residing in some darkness here!

3 OLD major false doctrines, which are alive and well on planet earth (in chronological order)
... thanks to Satan and his ability to deceive man (who is willing to be deceived):

1 -- cessationism
2 -- OSAS
3 -- pre-trib rapture

The first of these to absolutely be proven wrong to everyone is #3, which is coming up shortly, folks!

I.E. the Great Tribulation (the worst time in history), which Christians will be going through.
However, believers who are faithful, righteous, and holy will be protected by the Lord,
while the unfaithful, unrighteous, and unholy believers will not be protected, but will be killed.
.

stan1953 · May 7, 2014

FreeGrace2 said:
This actually goes both ways. Some come to Scripture looking for what supports their view, even when it isn't there.

Yes, that is called Eisegesis.

FreeGrace2 said:
For example: Heb 2:9 says quite plainly that Jesus tasted death for all. Not "some". Not "the elect". Not "believers only". So, when a Calvinist comes to that verse, they, because of their bias that He didn't die for everyone, must look for something to define "all" by. So they go to v.10, even though v.10 begins a new paragraph and new thought.
In fact, one of the Calvinists on CF acknowledged that when one reads Heb 2:9, the question that comes to mind is this: "all of what group]"? That in itself demonstrates the bias of Calvinism. He already believed that Christ didn't die for everyone, so he must assume the "all" cannot mean everyone, but rather must refer ONLY to some group. Aha! There it is, v.10. See? He died for "all the many sons". That's what the "all" means in v.9. Ridiculous!

I concur about Heb 2:9, and if that is not Eisegesis, then it is simply parroting dogmatic apologetics. Either way it does not show proper hermeneutical exegesis.

FreeGrace2 said:
Believers who aren't living out their faith towards others are useless and will not be used by God.
iow, salt is only useful when it is actually salty.

Yep, which is our salvic faith, which Jesus shows here we CAN lose.

Skala · May 7, 2014

stan1953 said:
Yes, that is called Eisegesis.

I concur about Heb 2:9, and if that is not Eisegesis, then it is simply parroting dogmatic apologetics. Either way it does not show proper hermeneutical exegesis.

Yep, which is our salvic faith, which Jesus shows here we CAN lose.

The word "pas" in the Greek is a flexible word that doesn't always mean "every single human being in the entire universe". It can simply mean "all of whom I am talking about"

Even in English, we use words like this. When a teacher says "everyone, sit down", she is referring to her class, not every person in human history from Adam to the last remaining person on the planet.

stan1953 · May 7, 2014

Skala said:
The word "pas" in the Greek is a flexible word that doesn't always mean "every single human being in the entire universe". It can simply mean "all of whom I am talking about"
Even in English, we use words like this. When a teacher says "everyone, sit down", she is referring to her class, not every person in human history from Adam to the last remaining person on the planet.

That's correct, so when we read the scriptures we need to be able to see the proper context being conveyed, and NOT read into it what we want.

Being able to properly exegete what the context is, is all part of "Rightly dividing the Word of Truth."

Skala · May 7, 2014

stan1953 said:
That's correct, so when we read the scriptures we need to be able to see the proper context being conveyed, and NOT read into it what we want.

Being able to properly exegete what the context is, is all part of "Rightly dividing the Word of Truth."

Exactly. Now if only some people would continue reading the 9 verses that come AFTER verse 9, (In Hebrews chapter 2) to see who the author is talking about. He continues to describe them, you know.

And guess what, he says that he is talking about the children of Abraham (ie, God's people), not the children of Adam (all individuals in the human race) (verse 16)

extraordinary · May 7, 2014

THIS said:
[FONT=&quot]We still have to repent to prepare the way for Jesus into our hearts.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]... We have to first repent of our sins.[/FONT]

First, first, first ... YES ...
But, you are failing to emphasize that repentance must continue on throughout life!
Did you forget, or what?
.

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