To Markea(my second response)
You learn from repetion:
Paul clearly stated in Eph. 3:2 that the dispensation of the Grace of God was given to him for us! We have a new dispensation!
Paul not only receives this new dispensation of grace from the glorified Christ sitting at the right hand of God via the Holy Spirit, but he has given it to us in written form. Hence, it is Paul's writings alone that we should look to for our doctrine and help in the Christian walk.
Paul alone was chosen to be God's spokesman for this new dispensation. The other 12 Apostles knew nothing about this dispensation; they knew only what Paul taught them ,and that is why Paul said he went by revelation [direct command of the glorified Christ of heaven] to Jerusalem to confer with the 12 Apostles and to teach them what gospel he preached. Gal. 2:2 "And I went up by revelation and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles.." If they had been preaching the same gospel, that would had not have been necessary, if we assume logical conclusions , not opinions, are attainable, and can be discussed, not dismissed.
We are to follow Paul and preach what he preached, i.e. "...the gospel of the grace of God...."(Acts 20:24, 1 Cor. 15:1-4), that is what he called his gospel in several places (Romans 16:25; Eph. 3:2,9; 2 Tim. 2:8; Romans 2:16). And then in Gal. 1:6,7,8, Paul gets to the point when he is defending his gospel, i.e. the gospel of the Grace of God , and here Paul calls his gospel , the gospel of Christ. "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." That is a strong statement and it seems to apply to 99.9 percent of Christendom ---those who are preaching a mixed gospel(for eg., the "TBN Circus"-preaching the gospel of the kingdom), trying to incorporate the law with grace, or those who are simply preaching the same gospel as Peter, James, and John and all of the 12 Apostles , i.e. the gospel of the kingdom. That is the gospel that was preached at hand by John the Baptist, by the 12 Apostles, by the seventy, by Jesus Himself, and by Peter at Pentecost.
Did you know Judas preached the gospel of the kingdom, and raised the dead? Do you "believe" he was "oblivious" to the reasons for the Lord Jesus Christ's death?
Looking at Acts 3:19-21 we see that Jesus prayer "Father forgive them for the know not what they do," from the cross , was answered. Peter was offering the Kingdom to that generation, to those who would be called "the little flock"(sheep=Israel), and had Israel repented and won the world to Christ, carrying out their so called "great commission", then Christ would have returned and set up the millennial kingdom, according to the promises and covenants made to their Fathers. This Acts 3 passage cannot be explained in any other way. At Pentecost, the Lord Jesus Christ was not beginning something new, He was working still through His 12 Apostles to win Israel and to allow them to win the World. But it didn't happen; they stoned Stephen , and they came under the Isaiah 6:9-10 discipline; their temple was destroyed in 70 AD and in the meantime we find that Paul was raised up right after the stoning of Stephen and made Apostle to the gentiles(Romans 11:13), with a temporary ministry to Israel. That is what we see in Acts chapters 9-28.
That is why we must pay particular attention to what Paul has to say, he is God's spokesman for this new dispensation. And further , Paul is the only writer who says, "follow me as I follow the risen Christ." Paul says, "Hold fast the pattern of sound words [doctrine] which you have heard from me" 2 Tim. 2:13; "And you became followers of us [Paul and his helpers] and of the Lord [the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ of heaven] having received the word [doctrine] in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit." 1 Thess. 1:6; "Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions [doctrinal instructions] which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle." 2 Thess. 2:14. "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ [the risen and glorified Christ of heaven]. In other words, Paul, the only apostle appointed by the glorified Christ of heaven is OUR APOSTLE-not Peter.
Only Paul has the mystery doctrine for this new dispensation, and that is why there is so much confusion and downright error-most have and are to this hour mixing doctrines which belong to one distinct dispensation, with the doctrines of other distinct dispensations or dispensation. The result is that they come up with a mixture of prophecy and mystery, and the net result is 100 percent confusion!
Please do not back-read later revelation(the mystery) into prophecy. Paul says you will not find the Body of Christ in the OT, and in early Acts. You can deny this, but yet it is so. God's judicial blinding of Israel, a key event that set off the salvation of Saul and the revelation of the mystery, was still a humanly unknown future event when the Lord Jesus Christ was on the earth, and in early Acts, as was this present "...dispensation of the grace of God...."(Eph. 3:2), and the yet-future existence of the Body of Christ was still a secret . The Body of Christ was completely unknown, unpredicted, unexpected, and UNREVEALED until the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ saved Saul/Paul, who became a pattern(1 Tim. 1:16) for Body members. If the Body of Christ--the Jew/Gentile church of this age--was a secret "hid in God" since before the beginning of the world (meaning the prophets couldn't see it coming) then the secret Paul told the Thessalonians had to be something NEW. Otherwise, where's the secret If you can show me any point at which the Body of Christ was addressed or spoken of before the salvation of Saul/Paul, and this mandates that you demonstate that Jews and Gentiles were on equal footing, and ANYWHERE in the Gospels where Israel was said to be on the same level before God as Gentiles, then you will go a long way toward changing my mind-I mean that-"take your best shot."
As one preacher said, The Lord Jesus Christ "wouldn't touch a Gentile in Mt.-John with a ten foot pole!". Any Gentile had to go through Israel, hence the seemingly puzzling statement(by those who do not RIGHTLY divide) by the Lord Jesus Christ in John 4:22:
"... salvation is of the Jews."
There is no evidence that this "modus operandi" changed in early Acts-none.
You never deal with the core of our argument and the bulk of our previous posts-the distinctive ministry of Paul and the revelation of the mystery. You totally ignore it.Zip.Nada. So until you are willing to meet me on that ground, which I suspect is unfamiliar territory for you, we have nothing to discuss. Again, my "feelings won't be hurt", even though I am "quite delusional", and you can make disparaging comments on this board all you like, and believe that you are showing me the "error of my ways", and perhaps others will view my desire to "make all men see....the mystery"(Eph. 3:9) as misplaced-so be it. But my reputation in the eyes of people, whether they are saved or unsaved, is not important to the Lord. I am to show myself "...approved unto God...."(2 Tim. 2:15), and not be a "men pleaser"(Proverbs 29:25; Acts 4:19, 5:29, 24:7; 2 Cor. 4:2; Galatians 1:10; Eph. 6:6; Col. 3:22; 1 Thes. 2:4; Jn. 5:44, 12:43).
In Christ,
following Paul, which is following the Lord Jesus Christ,
and not following Peter
John M. Whalen
PS: Again, I ask: Why the heck Paul? Please inform us "delusional" "hyper-dispensationalists" for what purpose Paul was given the revelation of the mystery, if it was the same message in early Acts, and if he preached the same "the gospel" as the 12 did in early Acts?
You learn from repetion:
Paul clearly stated in Eph. 3:2 that the dispensation of the Grace of God was given to him for us! We have a new dispensation!
Paul not only receives this new dispensation of grace from the glorified Christ sitting at the right hand of God via the Holy Spirit, but he has given it to us in written form. Hence, it is Paul's writings alone that we should look to for our doctrine and help in the Christian walk.
Paul alone was chosen to be God's spokesman for this new dispensation. The other 12 Apostles knew nothing about this dispensation; they knew only what Paul taught them ,and that is why Paul said he went by revelation [direct command of the glorified Christ of heaven] to Jerusalem to confer with the 12 Apostles and to teach them what gospel he preached. Gal. 2:2 "And I went up by revelation and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles.." If they had been preaching the same gospel, that would had not have been necessary, if we assume logical conclusions , not opinions, are attainable, and can be discussed, not dismissed.
We are to follow Paul and preach what he preached, i.e. "...the gospel of the grace of God...."(Acts 20:24, 1 Cor. 15:1-4), that is what he called his gospel in several places (Romans 16:25; Eph. 3:2,9; 2 Tim. 2:8; Romans 2:16). And then in Gal. 1:6,7,8, Paul gets to the point when he is defending his gospel, i.e. the gospel of the Grace of God , and here Paul calls his gospel , the gospel of Christ. "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." That is a strong statement and it seems to apply to 99.9 percent of Christendom ---those who are preaching a mixed gospel(for eg., the "TBN Circus"-preaching the gospel of the kingdom), trying to incorporate the law with grace, or those who are simply preaching the same gospel as Peter, James, and John and all of the 12 Apostles , i.e. the gospel of the kingdom. That is the gospel that was preached at hand by John the Baptist, by the 12 Apostles, by the seventy, by Jesus Himself, and by Peter at Pentecost.
Did you know Judas preached the gospel of the kingdom, and raised the dead? Do you "believe" he was "oblivious" to the reasons for the Lord Jesus Christ's death?
Looking at Acts 3:19-21 we see that Jesus prayer "Father forgive them for the know not what they do," from the cross , was answered. Peter was offering the Kingdom to that generation, to those who would be called "the little flock"(sheep=Israel), and had Israel repented and won the world to Christ, carrying out their so called "great commission", then Christ would have returned and set up the millennial kingdom, according to the promises and covenants made to their Fathers. This Acts 3 passage cannot be explained in any other way. At Pentecost, the Lord Jesus Christ was not beginning something new, He was working still through His 12 Apostles to win Israel and to allow them to win the World. But it didn't happen; they stoned Stephen , and they came under the Isaiah 6:9-10 discipline; their temple was destroyed in 70 AD and in the meantime we find that Paul was raised up right after the stoning of Stephen and made Apostle to the gentiles(Romans 11:13), with a temporary ministry to Israel. That is what we see in Acts chapters 9-28.
That is why we must pay particular attention to what Paul has to say, he is God's spokesman for this new dispensation. And further , Paul is the only writer who says, "follow me as I follow the risen Christ." Paul says, "Hold fast the pattern of sound words [doctrine] which you have heard from me" 2 Tim. 2:13; "And you became followers of us [Paul and his helpers] and of the Lord [the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ of heaven] having received the word [doctrine] in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit." 1 Thess. 1:6; "Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions [doctrinal instructions] which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle." 2 Thess. 2:14. "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ [the risen and glorified Christ of heaven]. In other words, Paul, the only apostle appointed by the glorified Christ of heaven is OUR APOSTLE-not Peter.
Only Paul has the mystery doctrine for this new dispensation, and that is why there is so much confusion and downright error-most have and are to this hour mixing doctrines which belong to one distinct dispensation, with the doctrines of other distinct dispensations or dispensation. The result is that they come up with a mixture of prophecy and mystery, and the net result is 100 percent confusion!
Please do not back-read later revelation(the mystery) into prophecy. Paul says you will not find the Body of Christ in the OT, and in early Acts. You can deny this, but yet it is so. God's judicial blinding of Israel, a key event that set off the salvation of Saul and the revelation of the mystery, was still a humanly unknown future event when the Lord Jesus Christ was on the earth, and in early Acts, as was this present "...dispensation of the grace of God...."(Eph. 3:2), and the yet-future existence of the Body of Christ was still a secret . The Body of Christ was completely unknown, unpredicted, unexpected, and UNREVEALED until the risen, ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ saved Saul/Paul, who became a pattern(1 Tim. 1:16) for Body members. If the Body of Christ--the Jew/Gentile church of this age--was a secret "hid in God" since before the beginning of the world (meaning the prophets couldn't see it coming) then the secret Paul told the Thessalonians had to be something NEW. Otherwise, where's the secret If you can show me any point at which the Body of Christ was addressed or spoken of before the salvation of Saul/Paul, and this mandates that you demonstate that Jews and Gentiles were on equal footing, and ANYWHERE in the Gospels where Israel was said to be on the same level before God as Gentiles, then you will go a long way toward changing my mind-I mean that-"take your best shot."
As one preacher said, The Lord Jesus Christ "wouldn't touch a Gentile in Mt.-John with a ten foot pole!". Any Gentile had to go through Israel, hence the seemingly puzzling statement(by those who do not RIGHTLY divide) by the Lord Jesus Christ in John 4:22:
"... salvation is of the Jews."
There is no evidence that this "modus operandi" changed in early Acts-none.
You never deal with the core of our argument and the bulk of our previous posts-the distinctive ministry of Paul and the revelation of the mystery. You totally ignore it.Zip.Nada. So until you are willing to meet me on that ground, which I suspect is unfamiliar territory for you, we have nothing to discuss. Again, my "feelings won't be hurt", even though I am "quite delusional", and you can make disparaging comments on this board all you like, and believe that you are showing me the "error of my ways", and perhaps others will view my desire to "make all men see....the mystery"(Eph. 3:9) as misplaced-so be it. But my reputation in the eyes of people, whether they are saved or unsaved, is not important to the Lord. I am to show myself "...approved unto God...."(2 Tim. 2:15), and not be a "men pleaser"(Proverbs 29:25; Acts 4:19, 5:29, 24:7; 2 Cor. 4:2; Galatians 1:10; Eph. 6:6; Col. 3:22; 1 Thes. 2:4; Jn. 5:44, 12:43).
In Christ,
following Paul, which is following the Lord Jesus Christ,
and not following Peter
John M. Whalen
PS: Again, I ask: Why the heck Paul? Please inform us "delusional" "hyper-dispensationalists" for what purpose Paul was given the revelation of the mystery, if it was the same message in early Acts, and if he preached the same "the gospel" as the 12 did in early Acts?
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Eph3Nine passes out the toothpicks, which ya dont need when yer still on milk...thank you.
