Turning the other cheek doesn't seem to work in reality

[timewerx]

Western laws are base on Christian values.

When self-defense could land you into trouble, it emboldens would-be criminals.

When offenses are let go, not met with justice and nothing done at all, evildoers continue in their evil works.

Nothing deters them and evil is perpetuated.


The only good it seems to serve is to test the good to mold the good into something with teeth. But it seldom changes the bad, if at all. It seems to rather doom the evil into keeping doing evil until one day, they are caught with their pants down....And who will catch them? God? or is it you?

 

[Eryk]

This is what love looks like: you care for other people in society by reporting violent individuals to the police. You care for yourself and someone you have a conflict with by pursuing reconciliation.

The command to turn the other cheek is addressed to an individual in personal situations - one person turning their cheek. Sociology, penology, and political science are beyond the scope of the command.

 

[Nithavela]

Western laws are base on Christian values.

They are?

 

[variant]

Western laws are base on Christian values.

When self-defense could land you into trouble, it emboldens would-be criminals.

When offenses are let go, not met with justice and nothing done at all, evildoers continue in their evil works.

Nothing deters them and evil is perpetuated.


The only good it seems to serve is to test the good to mold the good into something with teeth. But it seldom changes the bad, if at all. It seems to rather doom the evil into keeping doing evil until one day, they are caught with their pants down....And who will catch them? God? or is it you?

It's true that people don't actually act like they believe in "turn the other cheek".

 

[GrowingSmaller]

The ultimate conclusion has to be:

Jesus died for me. Youre next.

 

[dms1972]

Western laws are base on Christian values.

Christianity is only one influence of several on Western legal systems. Someone more knowledgeable will have to explain it further.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Another interpretation can be based on the culture of those times. In that culture a backhanded slap was for someone of a lower class. Assuming the strike was with the right hand, turning the other cheek would prompt a dilemma. The left hand was considered dirty but an open hand slap or a punch would be assaulting them as equals.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek#Nonviolent_resistance_interpretation

 

[FireDragon76]

You're assuming peoples are criminals because they rationally sit down and calculate it out... they don't. So, our responses to crime must not be based on false assumptions about what motivates or de-motivates criminals.

Good and evil are found in every human being. Any analysis of the human condition has to acknowledge that.

 

[timewerx]

Good and evil are found in every human being. Any analysis of the human condition has to acknowledge that.

Yes, but if a person does not control that evil in him or her, he or she is complicit with that evil.

Just because a half-naked woman walked in front you gives you the reason to grab her against her wishes and blame her for your offense.

There are other men with you who did not commit the offense. They were able to control their evil urges.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’

 

[JackRT]

Matthew 5:39 --- “But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” --- In an honour/shame, domination/submission culture such as existed in the first century in the middle East, this saying has a far different meaning than a straightforward reading of it might indicate. If a man were to strike a social equal, he would strike him with the palm of his right hand on the left cheek. However if a man were to slap a social inferior he would do so with the back of his hand to the inferior’s right cheek. If the inferior were then to turn his other cheek it would force his assailant to treat him as a social equal by striking with the palm of his right hand. Since slapping is no longer a widespread cultural practice, it can be helpful if you could actually act this out with another person. Jesus’ audience likely would have had a good laugh at his comment. Jesus is not counseling humility here, he is counseling a covert defiance.

 

[timewerx]

Thanks JackRT and HerCrazierHalf!

So it wasn't totally about passivity after all. It is certainly resistance against evil in a subtle way.

Maybe Jesus said it in such manner to avoid being accused of sedition too early.

 

[bhsmte]

Western laws are base on Christian values.

When self-defense could land you into trouble, it emboldens would-be criminals.

When offenses are let go, not met with justice and nothing done at all, evildoers continue in their evil works.

Nothing deters them and evil is perpetuated.


The only good it seems to serve is to test the good to mold the good into something with teeth. But it seldom changes the bad, if at all. It seems to rather doom the evil into keeping doing evil until one day, they are caught with their pants down....And who will catch them? God? or is it you?

Please demonstrate how western laws are based on Christian values.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Western laws are base on Christian values.

Who is Christian Values? Must be a cool guy to secretly be the basis for Western laws

But however, even in my snark, I can say there is some truth to the statement. For instance the criminalization of consensual sexual acts is pretty dumb. But other than that the statement is pretty false.

 

[Locutus]

Western laws are base on Christian values.

When self-defense could land you into trouble, it emboldens would-be criminals.

When offenses are let go, not met with justice and nothing done at all, evildoers continue in their evil works.

Nothing deters them and evil is perpetuated.


The only good it seems to serve is to test the good to mold the good into something with teeth. But it seldom changes the bad, if at all. It seems to rather doom the evil into keeping doing evil until one day, they are caught with their pants down....And who will catch them? God? or is it you?

every time WE turn the other cheek, we reduce the 'violence' in the world.

an example: someone on a forum says something I don't like. do I try to 'fix' that person by reporting them? Or do I fix myself by turning the other cheek?

 

[Deidre32]

I believe that turning the other cheek is about forgiveness, and forgiveness isn't about accepting bad behaviors. I think that's where people get a bit tripped up, in thinking that turning the other cheek means accepting continual bad behaviors. We are all works in progress, and for the most part, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt...but sadly for some, that's their cue to take advantage of me.

 

[Moral Orel]

Matthew 5:39 --- “But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” --- In an honour/shame, domination/submission culture such as existed in the first century in the middle East, this saying has a far different meaning than a straightforward reading of it might indicate. If a man were to strike a social equal, he would strike him with the palm of his right hand on the left cheek. However if a man were to slap a social inferior he would do so with the back of his hand to the inferior’s right cheek. If the inferior were then to turn his other cheek it would force his assailant to treat him as a social equal by striking with the palm of his right hand. Since slapping is no longer a widespread cultural practice, it can be helpful if you could actually act this out with another person. Jesus’ audience likely would have had a good laugh at his comment. Jesus is not counseling humility here, he is counseling a covert defiance.

And where does it say that he is talking about someone slapping someone of a lower social standing as opposed to all people in general, as a straightforward look at the verse would dictate? In fact, if we're talking about evil people, wouldn't they more likely be the poor criminal of a lower social standing than an honest person? Why would we assume he is talking about a very specific situation when he does not describe a very specific situation? Reading the following verses also dictates that we are to not only resist people, but to do more for them than is expected. Give up your cloak when you are sued, walk two miles when all they ask is one... How in the world do you find a way to read defiance into this?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

edit

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Matthew 5:39 --- “But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” --- In an honour/shame, domination/submission culture such as existed in the first century in the middle East, this saying has a far different meaning than a straightforward reading of it might indicate. If a man were to strike a social equal, he would strike him with the palm of his right hand on the left cheek. However if a man were to slap a social inferior he would do so with the back of his hand to the inferior’s right cheek. If the inferior were then to turn his other cheek it would force his assailant to treat him as a social equal by striking with the palm of his right hand. Since slapping is no longer a widespread cultural practice, it can be helpful if you could actually act this out with another person. Jesus’ audience likely would have had a good laugh at his comment. Jesus is not counseling humility here, he is counseling a covert defiance.

Thanks for that ....and is there a reference ???

 

[JackRT]

Give up your cloak when you are sued, walk two miles when all they ask is one... How in the world do you find a way to read defiance into this?

Matthew 5:40 ---“If someone sues you for your coat, give up your shirt as well.” --- In Jewish law if you fail to repay a debt you may be taken to court and if you are still unable to repay, the lender is entitled to take your coat. The lender holds the coat during the day but he is obliged to return it at night because the coat or cloak doubled as a blanket at night. In a two-garment society this would be highly embarrassing to the debtor. However it would be even more embarrassing to the court and the lender if the debtor were to turn over both garments and stand there naked. Remember this was a society with a strong taboo against public nakedness. Using this somewhat risque humour Jesus is once again counseling covert defiance and taking the part of the poor against the rich. I'll bet his audience laughed out loud. Humour is a great aid to the memory.

Matthew 5:41 --- “If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.” --- In Roman law a soldier had every right to have a civilian carry his pack for one [Roman] mile but no further. For the civilian to carry the pack a further distance would be to embarrass the soldier and possibly to get him in trouble with a superior officer. Once again Jesus takes the part of the small against the powerful by suggesting covert defiance. I suspect that Jesus’ listeners ‘got the message’ especially since it was couched in such sarcastic humour.