'Turn The Other Cheek' vs 'Doormat'

[MotherFirefly]

Spoiler: Matthew 5:44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

Multiple places in the Bible state having a mindset of peace in regards to others doing wrong to you. This can be a very foreign concept for those who dwell (or have in the past) in a worldly attitude. The sinful reaction to someone using and abusing you is retaliatian, but it seems God has spoken against this for the Christian.

However, my understanding (or perhaps lack there of) puts me at a single question: Is there a line that God has drawn for us where we do in fact need to stand up for ourselves?

Perhaps not in a way that brings harm or inconvenience to others, but rather a just way to retaliate?
Say, for example, when the misconduct you have dealt with begins to hinder your happiness, job, and life in general.
Are we 'allowed' to stand up to people who treat us lower than dirt, who make it their life goal to ensure you are misserable, and who take out their stress on you due to illogical insecurities?
Are there righteous ways to deal with these type of people?

Or are we to continue letting them get away with it, despite the heavy burden it places on our heart and soul?

 

[Kit Sigmon]

Turning the other cheek is about not retaliating when someone insults/puts
you down...you don't return insults or put downs.

I can tell you about dealing with racism being that I'm a black woman.
Example> someone calls me by the n-word, do I retaliate by calling
them by the p-word or do I walk on about my business? I walk on because
I know I'm a child of God and the apple of his eye and be of great value
cause his Son paid my sin debt and all that. I don't believe the so called bad
reports from them that be hating on me, cause I stay in a prayerful attitude
and I'm secure in my relationship with the Lord and keep myself awashed in
bible scripture and stand firm in the Lord's truth. I learnt to tune out certain
things, and keep setting my mind on godly things and on things that be of
a good report.

Nobody be messing up happiness or joy, those be things I get from
the Lord and not from people who are mean spirited.
Any burdens you have you turn them over to the Lord, you can also have
your church praying for you. It be a good idea for you to be a praying woman
not just now and then but pray before, during and after work. Short prayers
be fine, you don't got to be making long prayers that go on for an hour.

Another example> I'm working and another co-worker or co-workers harasses
me, messes up my production work, bad-mouths me on and on... this isn't
something I have to put up with day after day since there be laws against harassment an
a hostile work environment etc and I will legally seek relief from on the job harassment.
Look up your company's rules and regulations an see what it say about harassment.
Gather your evidence to what is going on and get legal counsel too!

 

[Goodbook]

The doormat thing.
Jesus says if the houses that we go to insult us...we just wipe the dust off our feet and leave. I.e leave the dust on THEIR doormat.

Bit hard to do if its your own family but at least I have my own bedroom I can go to.

 

[longwait]

Yeah I know how you feel. But some day the Lord will vindicate you and bring low those who harmed you. The Lord's vengance is always the best thing. If you retaliate almost always you will wish that you should have shut up. It could backfire on you. It is described in the Bible as suffering for being a christian, even if you suffer for doing good you are BLESSED.

 

[MotherFirefly]

Another example> I'm working and another co-worker or co-workers harasses
me, messes up my production work, bad-mouths me on and on... this isn't
something I have to put up with day after day since there be laws against harassment an
a hostile work environment etc and I will legally seek relief from on the job harassment.
Look up your company's rules and regulations an see what it say about harassment.
Gather your evidence to what is going on and get legal counsel too!

Thanks for your reply. Good for you for not taking anyone's crap.
Unfortunately, in our hypothetical situation, if that person(s) is your boss, and the people above him have known eachother real well, going to 'HR' isn't really an option.

Yeah I know how you feel. But some day the Lord will vindicate you and bring low those who harmed you. The Lord's vengance is always the best thing. If you retaliate almost always you will wish that you should have shut up. It could backfire on you. It is described in the Bible as suffering for being a christian, even if you suffer for doing good you are BLESSED.

Hypothetically, I would pray that is sooner rather than later... would really take a toll on me having to deal with it on the daily.
Especially if it hindered how people view you and how well your hard work gets noticed, rather than credit taken by someone else.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Geralt]

if it affects only you, a call to persevere and a testimony is in order especially if it is not under your control. if it is within your control (like you can appeal for justice or rule of law), might as well go for it.

when it affects other people like abuse to your family, a call to justice by way of civil law is in order and the responsible thing to do.

even lambs have shepherds.

 

[Cernunnos]

However, my understanding (or perhaps lack there of) puts me at a single question: Is there a line that God has drawn for us where we do in fact need to stand up for ourselves?

I use the following lens to examine situations: If someone is treating me in a given way, might they treat others in that way? Would I allow someone to treat my loved ones that way? Would I intervene if they were treating a stranger in that way? That is the line.

It isn't about defending myself, it isn't for myself that I have martial skills and tools. I have those things so that I can continue to provide for my family and contribute to the general defense of society. It may be that recording/ calling authorities with my cellphone is appropriate, it may be that drawing a weapon is appropriate, it may be that shouting is appropriate. . . whatever is appropriate is also dynamic. Police use a use of force model that looks like this:

It is not a bad model. As a non-Law Enforcement Person (at the moment) I may have the ability to retreat in some situations, but my Christian obligation to love my neighbor & to be the good Samaritan may obligate me to intervene or defend myself to prevent or discourage a given "person of malicious intent" from victimizing others.

 

[John Davidson]

The fact of the matter is that as Christians we are called to graciously take the abuse.

Now this isn't easy and requires quite a sacrifice and humble toleration.

But our savior endured the cross and we are to do the same.

 

[John Davidson]

Often times though Christ would escape persecution by running away, so he didn't always just stand there and take it.

 

[John Davidson]

John 10

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Fatheris in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

 

[John Davidson]

Luke 4

23 He said to them, “You will surely say this proverb to Me, ‘Physician, heal yourself! Whatever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in Your country.’” 24 Then He said, “Assuredly, I say to you, no prophet is accepted in his own country. 25 But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, and there was a great famine throughout all the land; 26 but to none of them was Elijah sent except to Zarephath, in the region of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow.27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian.”

28 So all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, 29 and rose up and thrust Him out of the city; and they led Him to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, that they might throw Him down over the cliff. 30 Then passing through the midst of them, He went His way.

 

[Cernunnos]

The fact of the matter is that as Christians we are called to graciously take the abuse.

Now this isn't easy and requires quite a sacrifice and humble toleration.

But our savior endured the cross and we are to do the same.

That does nothing for the offender's additional victims. It is akin to advising women to accept rape, using the same logic . . . heinous. A rape victim is unlikely to be a rapists only victim, the way to love one's neighbor is to protect those victims who would follow, by stopping the rapist.

There is a time for sacrifice and humble toleration, picture in your mind the future victims & ask your self if you can look at them with a straight face and say "I allowed you to be victimized because my ego in 'being a good Christian' was more important than your suffering". If your "good Christian" score is more important than saving others from the same, by all means, collect your martyr points and cash them in at the pearly gates. Jesus probably won't mind at all that you didn't love your neighbor or stand up for the weak . . .

 

[John Davidson]

That does nothing for the offender's additional victims. It is akin to advising women to accept rape, using the same logic . . . heinous. A rape victim is unlikely to be a rapists only victim, the way to love one's neighbor is to protect those victims who would follow, by stopping the rapist.

There is a time for sacrifice and humble toleration, picture in your mind the future victims & ask your self if you can look at them with a straight face and say "I allowed you to be victimized because my ego in 'being a good Christian' was more important than your suffering". If your "good Christian" score is more important than saving others from the same, by all means, collect your martyr points and cash them in at the pearly gates. Jesus probably won't mind at all that you didn't love your neighbor or stand up for the weak . . .

1 Corinthians 4:12-13
Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.

 

[Cernunnos]

1 Corinthians 4:12-13
Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.

So, do nothing for future victims, is the choice you make. "6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. . .. . . 14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." Jesus stood up, time and time again, against the powers of this world, against those who rule over the weak by force. You can guard what you perceive as the faith & encourage pacifism, by going beyond what is written. The words of Jesus himself were "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and body, the second is like unto it, that you love your neighbor as yourself" How can I do that, if I ignore or facilitate the crimes of villains & allow them to victimize my neighbor?

 

[John Davidson]

So, do nothing for future victims, is the choice you make. "6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. . .. . . 14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children. 15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." Jesus stood up, time and time again, against the powers of this world, against those who rule over the weak by force. You can guard what you perceive as the faith & encourage pacifism, by going beyond what is written. The words of Jesus himself were "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and body, the second is like unto it, that you love your neighbor as yourself" How can I do that, if I ignore or facilitate the crimes of villains & allow them to victimize my neighbor?

Jesus said, "If someone strikes you on the cheek turn to him the other also". I would say that is "encouraging pacifism".

But you seem to ignore those scriptures.

 

[Goodbook]

If its your boss, then like Moses with Pharoah, appeal to God and he will make any tyrant pay.
You will need to be asked to let go. Dont be a slave. GOd has better things for you.

 

[nanookadenord]

I use the following lens to examine situations: If someone is treating me in a given way, might they treat others in that way? Would I allow someone to treat my loved ones that way? Would I intervene if they were treating a stranger in that way? That is the line.

It isn't about defending myself, it isn't for myself that I have martial skills and tools. I have those things so that I can continue to provide for my family and contribute to the general defense of society. It may be that recording/ calling authorities with my cellphone is appropriate, it may be that drawing a weapon is appropriate, it may be that shouting is appropriate. . . whatever is appropriate is also dynamic. Police use a use of force model that looks like this:

It is not a bad model. As a non-Law Enforcement Person (at the moment) I may have the ability to retreat in some situations, but my Christian obligation to love my neighbor & to be the good Samaritan may obligate me to intervene or defend myself to prevent or discourage a given "person of malicious intent" from victimizing others.

While my dad isn't a Christian, I am Catholic and the Catholic Church does not prevent the laity from carrying a concealed weapon.

With that said, my dad and I will be going for our concealed weapons permits soon. The world is getting worse and protection of my kids and others from criminal activity is of utmost importance to me, especially when it comes to my children.

 

[Cernunnos]

Jesus said, "If someone strikes you on the cheek turn to him the other also". I would say that is "encouraging pacifism".
But you seem to ignore those scriptures.

A strike on the cheek refers to a physical albeit culturally appropriate insult from the time and place Jesus was speaking in, to offer the other cheek is to invite a different kind of strike which was culturally inappropriate & would bring shame (and possibly criminal charges) on the striker.

Jesus also said in Luke 22:36 "He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one." But you seem to ignore those scriptures.

 

[aiki]

So, what about Jesus tossing the moneychangers out of the temple? Was doing so pacifistic? What about when he called the Pharisees "sons of hell" and "brood of vipers" and "whitewashed tombs"? Was that turning the other cheek? They were his enemies, right? They were constantly conspiring to do him ill. Is being meek and gentle tantamount to being a doormat? No, I don't think so. Like Cerunnos pointed out, we have an obligation, demonstrated by Christ himself, to resist evil where we encounter it. And when we do, it'll sometimes look like Jesus whipping the moneychangers and throwing over their tables and/or sound like the hard words Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. It isn't just meekness and gentleness that we are to show in our behaviour, but also wisdom, justness, holiness and purity. At times we are to "stand fast" (1Cor. 16:13; Eph. 6:11, 13) and resist evildoers (1Pe. 5:9; Ja. 4:7), exposing their dark deeds and philosophies and rebuking them sharply if necessary (Eph. 5:11; Tit. 1:13).

Selah.

 

[Soyeong]

Slapping someone in the face was considered degrading and would lower the status of the person being slapped as they were publicly shamed. There were different penalties and compensation based upon whether someone was slapped with the back of the hand or with the palm.

Matthew 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Most people were right-handed, so a slap on the right cheek would be with the back of the right hand, which carried half the penalty for slapping someone on the left cheek with the palm of their right hand. By someone turning the other cheek and not going to the judge for compensation, they are taking the initiative of solving the dispute. Jesus was fulfilling the law or getting at the spirit behind it by teaching that we should show restraint in pursuing our rights and that we should be ready to suffer further injustice in order to show the true nature of the offender and provide the chance for them to refrain from further repeating the offence and thereby the chance for transformation and reconciliation. In refusing to be humiliated by turning the other cheek, they were restoring their dignity and provocatively offering to do more than what was originally demanded (in line with the surrounding verses), which in turn gives the opportunity for the offender to reconsider their action. If they continue, then their unjustness will be exposed, but if they stop, then they also restore their dignity and distance themselves from their previous action.

This is not directed at how everyone should respond in all circumstances, but rather at how people who are experiencing injustices should act when they have no other means of addressing them. This is encouraging them to actively challenge injustices, not saying that we should passively endure them. If we have more power to challenge injustices, then we have more responsibility to do so.