Trying to understand ELCA and LCMS...

[Daniel Stinson]

I agree with nearly all of it, but not quite all of it. I don't believe, for instance, that the Pope is THE Anti-Christ, and this belief would prevent me from membership in some parishes and leadership in most parishes (at least according to their own rules).

Steadfast Lutherans » Being Lutheran in a World with Popes
Most Lutheran denominations are congregationalist in structure, so we don't regard our highest position (usually a synodical president) as an absolute authority. The LCMS for instance excommunicated its 1st synodical president Martin Stephan, which could have never occurred within a Roman-Catholic hierarchy. Confessional Lutherans have no issue with an ecumenical leader or point-man so to speak; whether called a synodical president or a pope. What Confessional Lutherans do have an issue with the extent of authority the papacy has claimed for itself. If the Roman-Catholic Church changed the language associated with current state of the papacy, to one that's actually Scriptural in nature, then we wouldn't view a pope much differently from that of a synodical president in Lutheranism. Lutherans do regard clergy as brothers in Christ as opposed to the Roman-Catholic use of fathers.

 

[jinc1019]

Steadfast Lutherans » Being Lutheran in a World with Popes
Most Lutheran denominations are congregationalist in structure, so we don't regard our highest position (usually a synodical president) as an absolute authority. The LCMS for instance excommunicated its 1st synodical president Martin Stephan, which could have never occurred within a Roman-Catholic hierarchy. Confessional Lutherans have no issue with an ecumenical leader or point-man so to speak; whether called a synodical president or a pope. What Confessional Lutherans do have an issue with the extent of authority the papacy has claimed for itself. If the Roman-Catholic Church changed the language associated with current state of the papacy, to one that's actually Scriptural in nature, then we wouldn't view a pope much differently from that of a synodical president in Lutheranism. Lutherans do regard clergy as brothers in Christ as opposed to the Roman-Catholic use of fathers.

I understand all of that...But confessional Lutherans ALSO teach that the office of the Pope is the anti-Christ, which is something I don't believe to be valid.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I understand all of that...But confessional Lutherans ALSO teach that the office of the Pope is the anti-Christ, which is something I don't believe to be valid.

The Catholic Church has had good Popes and bad Popes; we have had good presidents and bad presidents. The two main things that we take issue with are:

• Papal Authority; supreme authority over the whole of Christendom
• Papal Infallibility.

The first point is contested not only buy us Lutherans but also by the Eastern Orthodox which excluded all Churches under Papal jurisdictions from Communion in 1054 (East?West Schism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) this article mentions a lot of other reasons, but they all stem back to my first point above.


The second point, again, was the result of the first point. Because of the second point, some dogmas and practices that seem to us Lutherans to be at odds with Scripture and, therefore anti-Christian.


However the Papal office is an antichrist (there are many), not "the" antichrist.

 

[Tangible]

The 'anti' in Antichrist means 'to stand in the place of'. The Pope stands in the place of Christ when he claims headship over the whole Christian church and claims to hold in his office the keys of the Kingdom.

 

[jinc1019]

Thanks for the responses.