trying to separate my soul from my body...

[chicacanella]

I will explain; so I have read extensively about Out of Body Experiences, also called "astral projection" or "spirit walking". Its pretty much going into a state where you can separate your physical body form your soul.

what do you think? do think this is some sort of evil? i think its cool, but i dont know what people think of it.

wikipedia says:
Out-of-body Experience.


Out-of-Body Experience (OBE or sometimes OOBE), is an experience that typically involves a sensation of floating outside of one's body...

In some cases the phenomenon appears to occur spontaneously; in others it is associated with a physical or mental trauma, use of psychedelic drugs, dissociative drugs, or a dream-like state. Many techniques aiming to induce the experience deliberately have been developed, for example visualization while in a relaxed, meditative state."

Some of those who experience OBEs claimed to have willed themselves out of their bodies, while others report having found themselves being pulled from their bodies (usually preceded by a feeling of paralysis). In other accounts, the feeling of being outside the body was suddenly realized after the fact, and the experiencers saw their own bodies almost by accident.

Ways of entering the state: by accident or through sleep, via deep trance, meditation or visualization. The types of visualizations vary; some common imageries used include climbing a rope to "pull out" of one's body, floating out of one's body, getting shot out of a cannon, and other similar approaches. This technique is considered hard to use for people who cannot properly relax. One example of such a technique is the popular Golden Dawn "Body of Light" Technique.


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Ok so know you know a little about it, what do you think? is this bad or good? has anyone done it? do you know of anyone who has done it.

This is a baddddd thing! Your body as the true disciple of Jesus Christ is supposed to the temple where The Holy Spirit dwells and not your own. You were bought and paid for with a price so it's not up to you to try to do astral projection. That is witch craft, plain and simple.

What your job is to do is growing closer to God and approaching Him through the blood of Jesus Christ and through His only begotten son. Paul was caught up to The Third Heaven by God's doing, and The Third heaven is where the throne of God is.

When you try astral projection, that is leaving your body open for demonic possesion and you will truly become a pawn of Satan.

 

[chicacanella]

It sounds like the whole OOBE thing is pretty ambiguous; many people describe many different experiences through different means, and they all fall under the same umbrella of "OOBE". Even in the bible, there doesn't appear to be any standard pattern for what an OOBE looks like; sometimes it involves going to heaven directly (Rev 4), sometimes it involves moving from one place on earth to another, but not necessarily in a material fashion (Ezekiel), sometimes it's left pretty unexplained (Isa 6, 2 Cor 12). Where is the line between OOBE and a vision? It's very hard to tell, because like Paul says, he didn't know if he was in body or out of body; that means (and I would agree) it is very difficult to determine if one is in-body during an experience or out-body. The same experience could often be either an in-body vision or an out-body spiritual experience, and it takes considerable discernment to figure out which.

With all that said, I'm not aware of any bible verses that speak against seeking OOBEs. In fact, since the very term OOBE came from 2 Cor 12, in certain conditions OOBEs are clearly biblical. I would agree with others that witchcraft should be avoided, but witchcraft = rebellion. If you're walking in the will of God and following his voice, then I personally don't see anything wrong with persuing what is, in essence, a spiritual experience.

Maybe I should also add, to what purpose is one seeking an OOBE? I think the answer to that question speaks a lot about whether the resultant experience would be in God's will or not.

Of course, if you aren't walking in God's will and you're in rebellion, then an OOBE would probably not be good. But even then, God has a history of giving visions to evil men, to turn them from evil, so I bet it's possible for evil men to have OOBEs from God. Just my opinion.

To the colored section: The bible clearly tells us what we should seek. That it should be first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, we should seek Him first, His face. All throughout the bible it says to seek God first.

 

[RyanLeeParis]

It is cool; I've had two that I remember, and yes I was in a trance, or a state where my body was asleep and my mind was awake. It was by accident, spontaneously. You don't just contact demons, like someone said. I've seen some beings in a trance that definitely weren't demons.

 

[divine137]

This is an important consideration. Putting aside the language of astral projection, which is far too New Age for my taste, it is possible for a dissociative state to become extreme enough to create multiple personalities, again happening from childhood or not at all, or even to lead to insanity. But those are extremes.

However, as I already said, it is not something people can dabble with at will. Imagining yourself to be somewhere else is not dissociation, however vivid, and it is not any kind of projection. It is only imagination.

Well, there is some truth and some misunderstanding there, at least, it sounds like it by what you are stating. You could be meaning the right thing though...

We 'do' use our 'wills' to "...desire earnestly spiritual/supernatural gifts.." as Paul states in 1 Corinthians. When Paul said to "...especially covet to get prophecy..." this gift comes in visions, dreams, and inspired utterances...

Peter 'fell' into a trance....but he had been "praying and fasting" all day long. So his will was 'earnestly desiring to hear from God..."

John also had to be communicating and meditating on God in order for God to show up with the visions...

So Paul went to heaven...not because he came out of his body and walked right on up....but he was definitely seeking experiences, that God answered.

So, what Im trying to say is....I agree, people in their earnestness actually "imagine" to be out of their bodies or basically imaging words from God and think its God and/or real experiences, but are not experiencing anything more than their own hearts or imaginations or thoughts...

But on the 'real' side, one has to meditate, pray, and earnestly desire (that's the will) to experience these supernatural gifts from God....but just as a witch attempts to channel....but not until the demon possesses does she get the real experience....a Christian needs to attempt to channel the Holy Spirit...but not until the Spirit possesses/fills us do we get the actual supernatural experience as well...

So u see a lot of 'flesh' prophecies...or really, people prophecying or seeing visions that are really their own hearts and imaginations...

There are imagining out of body experiences, demonic out of body experiences, and Godly out of body experiences...thus why Paul said to "...let 2 or 3 prophets speak...and let the others judge..." To see if he is talking out of his own heart, from the devil, or from God...

 

[Hiroyuki]

But on the 'real' side, one has to meditate, pray, and earnestly desire (that's the will) to experience these supernatural gifts from God....but just as a witch attempts to channel....but not until the demon possesses does she get the real experience....a Christian needs to attempt to channel the Holy Spirit...but not until the Spirit possesses/fills us do we get the actual supernatural experience as well...

So u see a lot of 'flesh' prophecies...or really, people prophecying or seeing visions that are really their own hearts and imaginations...

There are imagining out of body experiences, demonic out of body experiences, and Godly out of body experiences...thus why Paul said to "...let 2 or 3 prophets speak...and let the others judge..." To see if he is talking out of his own heart, from the devil, or from God...

I think you have some good points, but... just one thing...

Contrary point:
Well, if it is just you, and you hear from God, you can't exactly go and get others to judge. And how does one know those others are not also biased and willing to believe anything?

I mean, we see this all the time. Social groups condoning each other's fantasies, creating, in a sense, instead of a singular delusion, a societal delusion. Yet, it remains a delusion. Doesn't it?


Why:
Unfortunately, this goes into the whole question of the permanence of reality problem. How does one ever truly know anything is real at all and not a projection of one's own mind, afflictions and adversaries aside. (Like we are incapable of creating those...)


I always come down to love, that is I love someone, so I know they must be real. I don't love two dimensional projections.

And it only makes sense God would create a lot of children.


What else would God do?

There is a concept of "with someone in spirit", which I find very useful, but not an "OOB" thing. I have noticed, over the years, one can tell from even a distance when one's loved ones are in pain, whether they will like something, whether they are happy, and so on. This boggles the mind.

One can then wonder if one is creating this, and this other person is not, in fact 'real', and then it can be good to test it out.

Which maybe is what you are saying?

Just trying to understand...

 

[divine137]

I think you have some good points, but... just one thing...

Contrary point:
Well, if it is just you, and you hear from God, you can't exactly go and get others to judge. And how does one know those others are not also biased and willing to believe anything?

I mean, we see this all the time. Social groups condoning each other's fantasies, creating, in a sense, instead of a singular delusion, a societal delusion. Yet, it remains a delusion. Doesn't it?


Why:
Unfortunately, this goes into the whole question of the permanence of reality problem. How does one ever truly know anything is real at all and not a projection of one's own mind, afflictions and adversaries aside. (Like we are incapable of creating those...)


I always come down to love, that is I love someone, so I know they must be real. I don't love two dimensional projections.

And it only makes sense God would create a lot of children.


What else would God do?

There is a concept of "with someone in spirit", which I find very useful, but not an "OOB" thing. I have noticed, over the years, one can tell from even a distance when one's loved ones are in pain, whether they will like something, whether they are happy, and so on. This boggles the mind.

One can then wonder if one is creating this, and this other person is not, in fact 'real', and then it can be good to test it out.

Which maybe is what you are saying?

Just trying to understand...

Hmm? I must admit you lost me there after the delusion part. You began addressing the when someone is delusional right...? But then you branched off to talking about love. I kind of got lost there...can you reiterate...?

 

[Hiroyuki]

Hmm? I must admit you lost me there after the delusion part. You began addressing the when someone is delusional right...? But then you branched off to talking about love. I kind of got lost there...can you reiterate...?

...

It is a difficult concept to explain/express. It goes down to the nature of reality versus dream, and truth versus delusion.

A saying is that 'there is no truth because people believe what they want to based on their preferences'. However, there is truth, just as there is God. But, this does not mean people do not believe what they want to. For instance, take a totalitarian society or a cult where people create their own world which is different from God's truth and stick to that. It does not stay because it is not built with the fabric of reality with which the real world is built with.

So, you have people who think they have heard from God and those who believe them. Such as the false prophets of the times of old Israel. Physical Israel. We can argue they knew better, and they did on some deep level, but they also genuinely believed their delusions. Harsh reality would come into their face in the form of invading armies, natural disaster, and the other plagues God sent to 'wake them up'.

If one stands up and says, 'this is from God', they have to be really sure they are not exalting themselves. On the other hand, if God really does tell them something and they do not believe, they would be disbelieving God.

Jesus showed how flexible and in control reality was, it is said He worked so many miracles in those short three and a half years 'the world would be full of books of them'. (Gospel of John, at the end.)

Yet, Jesus also pointed out the 'sun shines and the rain pours on the righteous and unrighteous alike'. And He showed this in His life. Yet, He also showed, for instance, when He was sleeping one time and it was raining how He could - whenever He wished - actually stop the rain.

He pointed out who He is both by His miracles and His words. Not just by the miracles being miracles, yet by their nature of goodness.

While we all know good and evil from the Tree of Knowledge, many people did not accept Jesus, and not a few even called Him "Beelzebub" (the Devil), whereas they said of John the Baptist, "He is possessed". The point is it was so good, yet they could neither see nor hear that -- it appeared as if the opposite to them, so grand and ingenius was the beauty of it... or so bad were the deeds of the Pharisees.

These people, the Pharisees and the rest of the people of the time kept their delusional reality until forty years later when Israel was literally decimated. And they still did not 'wake up'.

Ultimately, therefore, one has to know what is real by love, because in life there is love, and love is life. Those who have this love we know. They also have life. Those who do not are already dead.

The dead are as in a dream world, they are asleep. Whenever one is asleep they are not in reality, but in a dream world.

They are not in godly love and do not know it nor show it. They may have dreams of God speaking to them. They may virtually connect their dream worlds with others so many may agree on the same lie. But, it all vanishes, like a dream when God's patience is finished with and reality intrudes to awake them.

That reality is of love, for it is of God.

Normally, though, when reality wakes people up, it is not something they can understand because they do not understand love.

 

[Mikecpking]

I will explain; so I have read extensively about Out of Body Experiences, also called "astral projection" or "spirit walking". Its pretty much going into a state where you can separate your physical body form your soul.

what do you think? do think this is some sort of evil? i think its cool, but i dont know what people think of it.

Impossible, because the whole person is a 'soul' (gen 2:7)

Also, the 'soul' is literally the blood (DT 12:23, Lev 17:11.

Astral projection is occult so we should avoid it!

 

[Hiroyuki]

There's no technique, and all that voodoo stuff just muddies the water.

We are naturally "with people in spirit" as Paul spoke of when we think on them.


It is like focusing of the eye or the conscious mind.

It isn't magic, just the way people are.