Trying to find a particular bible story

[ebia]

For what reason?

Because I've read a reasonable amount of scholars across the spectrum comment on 2 Maccabees and every single one has treated it as written circa 100BC, from those who treat it as canonical to those who regard it as non-inspired but historically important Jewish literature. Not one mentions anything vaguely along the lines you claim.

If your claim is actually based on some real scholarship I'd like to know and it won't hurt you to cite it.

Not one hint along your lines in Anchor Bible Dictionary nor Wikipedia. Nor even in any of the rabbid rants against the apocrypha I've seen.

 

[drich0150]

Because I've read a reasonable amount of scholars across the spectrum comment on 2 Maccabees and every single one has treated it as written circa 100BC, from those who treat it as canonical to those who regard it as non-inspired but historically important Jewish literature. Not one mentions anything vaguely along the lines you claim.

If your claim is actually based on some real scholarship I'd like to know and it won't hurt you to cite it.

Not one hint along your lines in Anchor Bible Dictionary nor Wikipedia. Nor even in any of the rabbid rants against the apocrypha I've seen.

1)a simple Christian commentary:

What are the books of 1 and 2 Maccabees?

2)Approaching the books from the position of a proper Jewish "Scholarship" I decided to see how the Jews viewed these books. after they are meant to be "books" written by the Jews.

MACCABEES, BOOKS OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com

You wanted source material this is what I have provided. I am not in a position to argue for or defend a Jewish encyclopedia. The fact that it is what it is, should be enough to solidify it's status as "scholarship" material. releasing me from your charge.

 

[ebia]

1)a simple Christian commentary:

What are the books of 1 and 2 Maccabees?

2)Approaching the books from the position of a proper Jewish "Scholarship" I decided to see how the Jews viewed these books. after they are meant to be "books" written by the Jews.

MACCABEES, BOOKS OF - JewishEncyclopedia.com

You wanted source material this is what I have provided. I am not in a position to argue for or defend a Jewish encyclopedia. The fact that it is what it is, should be enough to solidify it's status as "scholarship" material. releasing me from your charge.

I don't see where either even mentions claims of medieval authorship of 2 Maccabees. :confused;

 

[drich0150]

I don't see where either even mentions claims of medieval authorship of 2 Maccabees. :confused;

That is simple enough to remedy. Take another look at post 19. I did not say the Second book of Maccabees had a medieval authorship. Infact I even go so far as to say the first two book fill in the time period between Malachi and Mathew quite nicely. (Meaning they are 1 century BC books)

The only thing I suggested was that the study of these two books were not for someone still in the milk of the word.

 

[ebia]

That is simple enough to remedy. Take another look at post 19. I did not say the Second book of Maccabees had a medieval authorship.

Thats what you seemed to be strongly suggesting. If not and...

the first two book fill in the time period between Malachi and Mathew quite nicely. (Meaning they are 1 century BC books)

then there is nothing further needs saying

 

[ebia]

So, to summarize. The story as the OP describes it, (including torture wheel in NJB translation, rack in NRSV), is in 2 Maccabees (chapters 6-7).

This book was written late 2nd or very early first century BC

This book is:
Canonical in the Eastern Church bibles,
Deuterocanonical in Catholic bibles
Part of the "Apocrapha" if at all in Protestant bibles.

As the Anglican 39 Articles puts it
"And the other Books (as Hierome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine".

(is that actually a quote from Jerome?)

 

[razeontherock]

I still want to know how the torture wheel, if it is a medieval device, came to be in a book written BC?

 

[ebia]

I still want to know how the torture wheel, if it is a medieval device, came to be in a book written BC?

I don't think the Greek is literally "torture wheel". I.e. They may not be talking about the same device/method. But I have neither reverse-interlinear nor serious commentary for 2 Maccabees. Either that or something wheel/barrel like was used somewhere around that time, or someone at least imagined the prospect.

 

[razeontherock]

Ok, thanks. It's an interesting little mini-point. I'm just glad such details are so far in the distant past that we have to wonder!

 

[ebia]

Ok, thanks. It's an interesting little mini-point. I'm just glad such details are so far in the distant past that we have to wonder!

You don't want to try out being tortured on various round things by way of experimentation?

 

[razeontherock]

Well ya know, knowledge by first hand experience is superior; but I'll pass