What is it that you are calling my opinion?
It's a 'complete fabrication' to think that the reason people favor the AV over other translations is that they feel it to be a better translation than the more recently-produced translations such as the NIV, and not because of the reasoning used by the KJV-O folks???? Really?
Who woulda figured?
That's what I thought when I read "complete fabrication."
That was rather a lot of verbal overkill, wouldn't you really say?Well, I disagree with that, although I don't agree with the KJV-O arguments. As has been mentioned here on CF many times, the modern translations suffer from serious shortcomings when trying to improve upon the AV, and the idea that the AV isn't understandable by modern people is just dumb.
I've personally heard a number of people (even as recently during a bible study last night) that they had much difficulty understanding the KJV. While technically it *is* indeed understandable by modern people in general, there are still many individuals who seem to have a very hard time with it, and who may be served much better by alternate translations, perhaps even including the "reviled" NIV.
Have they never heard of one of those Bibles with four different versions given side by side? Do they have no ability to check with some other translation when some word or other causes a little difficulty? WHAT, in other words, recommends throwing the baby out with the bathwater, discarding the most beautiful and edifying translation of all (and one that, yes, is more accurate than all or almost all of the more readable translations that people think they must use instead)?I've personally heard a number of people (even as recently during a bible study last night) that they had much difficulty understanding the KJV. While technically it *is* indeed understandable by modern people in general, there are still many individuals who seem to have a very hard time with it, and who may be served much better by alternate translations, perhaps even including the "reviled" NIV.
Have they never heard of one of those Bibles with four different versions given side by side? Do they have no ability to check with some other translation when some word or other causes a little difficulty? WHAT, in other words, recommends throwing the baby out with the bathwater, discarding the most beautiful and edifying translation of all (and one that, yes, is more accurate than all or almost all of the more readable translations that people think they must use instead)?
Maybe it's just something that depresses me. Jewish children are taught to read their scriptures in a foreign language. Muslim people are, too. But we...oh, we have to have everything in baby talk or else it's too much for us. And you know that it's not confined to the Bible. We hear the same thing about the wording used in the worship service, and any prayer that's offered, in the wedding service, and on and on.
Do you know what the reading level of the King James Version is as rated by English teachers and those organizations that evaluate such things? It's 12th Grade level. What the people who say they just can't understand it opt for instead is one or more of the translations that have been rated at 9th Grade or less! So, it's not as though the KJV is simply unintelligible to the average person.
Have they never heard of one of those Bibles with four different versions given side by side? Do they have no ability to check with some other translation when some word or other causes a little difficulty? WHAT, in other words, recommends throwing the baby out with the bathwater, discarding the most beautiful and edifying translation of all (and one that, yes, is more accurate than all or almost all of the more readable translations that people think they must use instead)?
Maybe it's just something that depresses me. Jewish children are taught to read their scriptures in a foreign language. Muslim people are, too. But we...oh, we have to have everything in baby talk or else it's too much for us. And you know that it's not confined to the Bible. We hear the same thing about the wording used in the worship service, and any prayer that's offered, in the wedding service, and on and on.
Do you know what the reading level of the King James Version is as rated by English teachers and those organizations that evaluate such things? It's 12th Grade level. What the people who say they just can't understand it opt for instead is one or more of the translations that have been rated at 9th Grade or less! So, it's not as though the KJV is simply unintelligible to the average person.
Have they never heard of one of those Bibles with four different versions given side by side? Do they have no ability to check with some other translation when some word or other causes a little difficulty? WHAT, in other words, recommends throwing the baby out with the bathwater, discarding the most beautiful and edifying translation of all (and one that, yes, is more accurate than all or almost all of the more readable translations that people think they must use instead)?
Maybe it's just something that depresses me. Jewish children are taught to read their scriptures in a foreign language. Muslim people are, too. But we...oh, we have to have everything in baby talk or else it's too much for us. And you know that it's not confined to the Bible. We hear the same thing about the wording used in the worship service, and any prayer that's offered, in the wedding service, and on and on.
Do you know what the reading level of the King James Version is as rated by English teachers and those organizations that evaluate such things? It's 12th Grade level. What the people who say they just can't understand it opt for instead is one or more of the translations that have been rated at 9th Grade or less! So, it's not as though the KJV is simply unintelligible to the average person.
That's what I thought when I read "complete fabrication."
Well, I disagree with that, although I don't agree with the KJV-O arguments. As has been mentioned here on CF many times, the modern translations suffer from serious shortcomings when trying to improve upon the AV, and the idea that the AV isn't understandable by modern people is just dumb.
If so, say hello to it for me.
What of this passage needs translation? Would regular English speakers not understand "bidden," as in someone bids you do to this or that? And certainly the "Thou art" is no problem.No, it's not "dumb" it's true. Most "modern people" have a hard time understanding 17th. century English for one good reason: it's not their native language. Do you really expect most English-speaking people in the 21st century to understand this...
"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when
he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher:
then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat
with thee."
Would you translate this for the rest of us? Or would you prefer this link: Bible Gateway passage: Luke 14:10 - New International Version
Because it's not their native language people must translate the KJV words into 21st century English, the kind we all think, read, and write today. How often do you here pastors read from the KJV then translate it immediately, saying "what this means is..." If that isn't enough, why don't the participants on this forum write in 17th. century English to get their meaning across as clearly as possible?
"Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?" Job 39:9
If so, say hello to it for me.
I did not translate it.Then why did you just translate it???
Here is the KJV translation...
" But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee."
For those people who would like the translation of this verse into understandable English by the competent NIV scholars, here it is...
"But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests."
"then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee" versus "Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests."
Are you worshiping while others are eating lamb or goat??? 'Cause that's what the KJV says!
The meaning of the verse in the KJV is muddled and obscure; the NIV meaning is totally clear.
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"Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?" Job 39:9 (KJV)
If so, say hello to it for me.
Which of the two translations I quoted above is more understandable? Anyone reading it in the KJV has to do some mental gymnastics to figure out what it means. Those hearing it in the source language during the time it was read to them didn't have to do that and neither should we. It is definitely not "quiet understandable straightforwardly".
"Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?" Job 39:9 (KJV)
