Truths

DragonFox91 said:

There's women in the group but I don't know how to take it to the next level. :/
I guess are none are interested in me in that kind of way......yet....

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It takes time to build a connection especially in that type of group setting. I would try to relax and not overthink it. Really, if you think about it, these women know nothing about you yet. Why should they show interest? Likewise for you. Other than that they are single women you really know nothing about them. The best way to see if anyone is a good match is by talking to them about something that is relevant.

Since you are in a Christian group, you could make conversation with some by asking them what they thought of certain points that were discussed. Share your opinions too. At the very least you might be able to enjoy a good conversation with someone and perhaps you will click with someone in the group. The worst thing you can do is get too intense. It will show and that will scare others off.

DragonFox91 said:

What do you mean too intense?

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Eagerness perceived as pushiness or intensity.

I was thinking about my earlier comment while I read your post. It will be difficult for you not to rush in. But I encourage you to hold back for now. You've invested a lot of work in yourself and the change is evident. You're not the person I encountered a few years ago and I'm proud of the progress you've made.

The effort won't go unrewarded. But eagerness could misdirect your focus when its needed most. God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” How does that apply where you're concerned? What do you genuinely require from the opposite sex for your betterment? Chew on it for a bit.

The first thing that came to mind is someone with a welcoming spirit. They're the ones who make everyone comfortable, get conversations going and navigate social settings. That would probably bless you right now and I'm willing to bet it would come in handy elsewhere. Biblically speaking its the gift of hospitality.

Keep up the good work!

~bella

DragonFox91 said:

Yeah, that's what makes it challenging in church group settings. I guess it's supposed to tho so you know it's real.

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You've shared enough thus far about the person you're looking for. Now you're encountering others like yourself and its exciting. You don't know if they have the qualities you seek. That won't be clear without engagement and observation. You have an opportunity to be a fly on the wall. Use it.

How does she relate with others? Is she friendly and attentive? Is she engaged with the group or on her phone? How do you feel in her presence? Relaxed, comfortable, etc. How does she respond to the word? Is she passionate or blase?

The number one quality I would seek (in your shoes) beyond faith is a calming influence. The woman who soothes you will be an amazing asset and keep anxiety at bay.

DragonFox91 said:

yeah you asked me in the past & either didn't like my answer or I struggled w/ it.

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You've grown a lot since then. Maybe you have the answers you didn't at the time. It's hard to have a bad marriage when you're meeting each others needs and respect is plentiful. I've discovered the value of great esteem. It changes you and the atmosphere. There's so much you're unwilling to do or say when you think the world of someone. You don't want to hurt them even when you're hurting. You believe in their goodness in spite of their imperfections. And they feel the same.

DragonFox91 said:

I need to become that or look for that? They definitely help & are who you look for, but you need to become that as well b/c you're capable of it too.

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You don't have to do the same. God gifts us differently. You've demonstrated a propensity to encourage which is sorely needed. Hospitality may not be your strong suit but the pairing could make a difference. You balance the other and strengthen their weaknesses. Some things improve within our relationships. You're rubbing off on one another and have a safe place to explore. You'll grow together.

I dated a connector in the past. He was an introvert but he forced himself to meet a different person every week over a meal. He had a wide network from doing so. Now I'm not like that. I'm selectively extroverted. I come to life when I get there but I don't have a pressing need to gather.

I learned a lot from him and realized I needed that. Now I look for opportunities to connect. I'll forgo online convenience in deference to interactions in person. There's other reasons why that's the case but he helped me nonetheless. Maybe I'll bless someone through my fellowship. Maybe an opportunity will arise unexpectedly. Maybe I'll make a friend.

We don't have to be everything. The things we lack are found in spades elsewhere. And what they lack we probably have in tow and both are bettered.

DragonFox91 said:

Thanks bella. it's not me investing, it's God investing in me. At most me welcoming him in new ways, or ways I tried previously & gave up on when it got hard or didn't seem exciting anymore. We pray it's not just a phase but lasting. It's been a couple months now & hasn't gone away which is encouraging.

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I see both at work. You're making the effort, challenging yourself, holding yourself in check and encouraging others. Although low moments occur they don't affect you the way they did. You believe in yourself and have the hope you lacked. Now you're trusting the process. He's working things in and out of you to bring it to fruition.

The prayer was already answered. But no one could tell you that. It's satan's job to make you despondent. He wants us to feel forgotten and hopeless. I know it wasn't easy to talk to me at times. I always saw beyond the pain and understood its purpose.

But what the devil meant for harm God healed and restored. It's already done.

Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy met him. They stood at a distance and called out in a loud voice, “Jesus, Master, have pity on us!”

When he saw them, he said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went, they were cleansed.

~bella

DragonFox91 said:

@TheLastGeek I saw secular (mainstream) shrink today like we agreed to. It went well. Still not sure if seeing a shrink consistently is the right path for me, but he seems like a better fit or he just seems like he'd be more helpful then the other one I saw.

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I'm glad you went, and proud of you for going! Give it a substantial shot and keep going for a while, and your mind may change. Best wishes!

DragonFox91 said:

That is happening, yes.

What do you mean too intense?

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Bella pretty much explained what I meant. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. It's good to show interest, but if you are too eager or try to force a connection too quickly ( unnaturally) , it can feel pushy or forced and that can scare some women off.

DragonFox91 said:

Bella it seems a bit healthier for me to not respond in kind to your lengthy responses, But I do thank you for typing up all that regardless, & I am reading it all & am reflecting on it all & trying to take it to heart & finding wisdom, so I don't want you to see these brief replies as neglect.

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Thank you for your courtesy. I understand.

DragonFox91 said:

I do have 1 question on that friend: was he rich? Would it have made a difference if he wasn't? Would it have been a positive difference if he wasn't? (I'm just curious is all, not saying men have to be rich or anything at all, just trying to get a feel of who he was)

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He was an anomaly. A classic overachiever with an amazing work ethic. He was incredibly driven and usually wanted to do more than he could and milked life to the fullest. Living that way inevitably brings success of some degree.

I'm not attracted to wealth. I'm drawn to greatness. I like men who challenge themselves to use their gifts and talents and expand their knowledge. They're not easily derailed and want to be the best and I enjoy helping them.

I don't look for money because men aren't the lone avenue for its attainment. When you're unable to build wealth or unwilling to do so you rely on others. But when you understand the principles of work and divine laws that follow you know effort is rewarded. The more you use the things God placed in you the greater your success.

Mindset is the primary impediment to my hand. You can't change your beginning but you can rewrite your future. No one can make you do it. You have to decide I want more and work towards it.

I'm dealing with people who've done that. They're putting their ideas in motion and working towards their dreams. We're past that point. Now we can focus on increase and collaborations because the groundwork is laid. That's the man I'm meant to help--as in help meet. That's why its fulfilling.

DragonFox91 said:

Yeah, but now it's a new challenge: discerning what the right decisions are, the right path I need to take, to make us happen. There is work required by us even tho God decrees something. I feel especially as a man.

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That's wisdom talking. Some are waiting for them to land in their lap or beating their head against the wall when no one responds to their message. You are discerning enough to realize that convenience isn't always best and effort is necessary. You're more likely to meet someone than the person flooding someone's inbox. Assessment is part of the process.

DragonFox91 said:

I remember being snappy at least once but how do you know it wasn't always easy to talk to you for me. How do you know that? & it still may not be.

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You were hurting and wanted it to stop. You weren't asking for the world or great riches or demanding a 10. You wanted a woman who loved the Lord who'd love you back. That's why I talked to you. I was struck by its simplicity. It said a lot about your character.

You're an anomaly too. But that's a conversation for another day.

DragonFox91 said:

If we happen - tho I suppose I s/b saying when - yes, it's done. It was done 31 years ago. Not saying things are predestined or anything, just that God's truths for me are the same 31 years ago as they are today as they'll be 31 years from now. It's a very enlightening perspective & not how we - at least I - want to think.

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I don't know when the prayer was answered but I know it is. God begins on the inside. By the time we recognize the changes He's done a lot.

DragonFox91 said:

Oh I was thinking of another thing yesterday: I understand now what you mean by fast courtships. & what other people mean by them too. I used to have to this lengthy timeline of all the time it would take to get married. I no longer necessarily think that. If it's the right person, you will know & she will know, & you won't be hesitant, & she won't be hesitant, & others in their wisdom & judgment & what they know about the 2 partners on a personal level, they will be able to tell you too. I totally understand now how after you meet someone, you could be married within a year or 2.

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It's difficult to have a lengthy courtship and keep your heart in check. The longer it persists the more vulnerable you become. Guarding the heart requires us to ask hard questions and avoid tying the other up if marriage isn't possible. You want to leave them bettered not recovering.

DragonFox91 said:

It's ridiculous having a pre-planned timeline of what each stage in the process, how much time it should take, look like, immidiately assuming it's a long process b/c finding each other has been a long process (the long process in finding each other doesn't mean the actual courtship to marriage process is long. You avoid rushing by using good judgement, staying level-headed, & not letting emotion or 'I just want to get married period' control you 2. The lengthy part is is finding her (finding him if you're the lady)

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When I ceased to think about marriage or men in general I gained a lot insight unexpectedly. I prayed for my husband's well being. But I didn't wonder when, who or how. etc. One day I realized it was settled. Everything fell away and I felt really calm.

God doesn't want us fretting. Nor is He oblivious to our pain or efforts. You're trying and as long as you do they'll be a harvest. My perceptions have changed. I'm not plugged in as much as I was in the past and that breeds a wholesomeness I value.

~bella

DragonFox91 said:

Sometimes you hear of men like that. They can just go to a table & whip up conversation to people who otherwise might be giving off closed vibes. Not necessarily rich, or well-dressed, or solid career, they just do it b/c it’s who they are. They’re not looking to get anything out of it other than a decent conversation. No Gospel sharing. No date. No money. Just friendly for the sake of being friendly. I was kind of hoping the man you’re talking about was like that. I wanted to hear a good story like that. I don’t see that very often. This man seems close.

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Believe or it not he's an introvert. I assumed otherwise but he told me he makes himself do the weekly meetings to step outside of his comfort zone. But he isn't a loner. He needs human interaction and hated working from home. He missed the engagement and enjoys other's company. But he also spends time alone each week for introspection. He'll grab his journal and take a ride and jot down his thoughts. I think he's found a happy medium in that respect.

He's very successful but his work doesn't define him. He enjoys his career and takes on additional projects including teaching. He has too much energy for one position and I suggested supplemental work to address that. He's had multiple positions since that point.

He has means and dresses well. His suits are tailor made but you'd never know because he doesn't project that image. He's not flashy or pretentious. If we were sitting together you'd be shooting the breeze. He'd want you to feel comfortable and relaxed. You'd get along.

DragonFox91 said:

I have ideas of what I’d like her to be like. In some ways that’s made the waiting easier b/c you think ‘nope, that’s not her.’ But it may have put me into a box too & does add to the frustration. Need to break that box, or continue to try to put cracks into it.

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Some qualities will always stand out. Others will lose importance or no longer apply and others will take their place. You're evolving and so is she. What you need today may differ five years later. But there'll be constants for you both.

DragonFox91 said:

Not only that, but it shouldn't take more than a year or so to know if you both want to get married to each other. Otherwise you're just wasting time. You should know if you're wasting each other's time. You should have a pretty good idea of this person. Vulnerabilities need to be exposed. Compatibility needs to be tested. The hard conversations need to be had. Plans needs to be shared. The idea is to date to marry; just dating is a waste. Even 'practice dating to marry' needs to have its limits.

Even 'meeting her (or him if you're a lady) & getting to that stage' may not take as much time as I had thought. With the right person, doing it the right way, the whole process can be quick.

There's an idea that it can't be quick, you don't want to rush it, you need it long to test. But if it's done right, you can test early & often.

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People rarely enter relationships at identical points of readiness and that contributes to the wait. A person may say they want to marry but aren't prepared to do so for several years. They may have growing to do or healing that hasn't occurred that needs to happen.

The obvious step is working through our fears and ambivalence. If the relationship is solid and the commitment is mutual you can make allowances. Engagement might be the appropriate step with marital counseling and preparation. But the first thing I'd ask for is prayer. I'd establish the practice early on to keep things centered and foster the habit of praying for one another. Once a week is fine.

If they can't pray for you it means you'll carry the burden and its heavy. Prayer changes the atmosphere. Especially for women. We have a million upsets and irritations. ;-)

The more you pray the less bothered you become. You let a lot of stuff go.

DragonFox91 said:

I feel like that attitude can create complacency. A ‘it’ll happen when it’ll happen’, ‘God will give you one when he gives you one,’ even ‘I’m perfect the way I am, someday a lady (or man) will understand that.’

I’ve struggled with that kind of advice. Now I’m learning, yes, absolutely, it’s up to God, but you still have to be the absolute best you can be, you still may have things you need to work on, are you trying as absolutely as hard as you think you are, etc.?

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There's a difference between wanting to marry and having a healthy marriage. The latter has tell-tale signs. You spend less time focusing on your wants and more on the value you bring. That's what inspires the work.

When you want to be a good husband or wife your conversation differs. You're not focused on superficialities and worldliness. You want something meaningful. That's why housekeeping is a priority. You want to add to their lives and increase the possibility for success.

We'll never be perfect but that doesn't mean we should ignore everything. A willingness to address our challenges is admirable. One of the most common themes in marriage books is complaint. My partner did this or that and it made me feel this way. And God says let's talk about you.

That's where I discovered the power of prayer in relationships. When they stopped talking about the problem and complaining and praying instead He began to move. Through their prayers they were changed as were their situations.

By changing us that changes everything.

DragonFox91 said:

I wasn’t told this. I kept getting the things in the top line. I’m glad I didn’t. I’m glad I’m finding it out on my own. It comes from the heart finding it on your own.

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There are things we learn along the journey no one can impart. We discover it while we walk.

I think it's important to develop the habit of seeking God's input and consult Him before others. Sometimes that requires us to wrestle with things or wait longer for answers. The more we talk the more He responds. In most instances He settles it or provides the answer another way. I usually reserve counsel for bigger matters unless He's told me not to discuss it.

To that I'd add the importance of having a vision for yourself and your life. It doesn't have to be set in stone but it's useful. I have a personal and professional development plan. I make changes as needed. They're a reflection of personal, professional and spiritual goals and my calling. It's a springboard for further discussion and beneficial when evaluating suitors.

I settle the how upfront. There's going to be nuances with every situation. Understanding their wants and needs early on allows me to support and encourage their pursuits. The response is mutual. Openness and honesty inspires contentment. We're trying and cheering each other on. But sometimes we'll miss the mark. It happens.

Some couples have vision retreats to plan things out. I like that idea. Jimmy Evans teaches on the practice and I'll share a link to his site.

~bella

DragonFox91 said:

Some of what I was struggling w/ is marrieds don't really understand. W/ Christian marrieds it can be hard especially. How do you find that balance between the thankfulness & contentment they advise, but still have the desire, know it's from God, & want to make the changes you know you have to make. Sometimes you get advised too far the other way, where thankfulness & contentment seems liked it's encouraging complacency (you don't have to work on yourself).

The trick to the Christian life has always been accepting healthy (godly) amounts of blessings & desires, without going too far to what the world thinks are healthy amounts, & without going too far to Gnosticsm who taught it's wrong to have 'worldly' desires period.

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I get what you are saying, but I don't think contentment should be feared. If someone is truly content and thankful to God, they will grow by leaps and bounds spiritually. Contentment is Biblical and we are exhorted to be content in all situations in life. So, if it is advised in Scripture it can't ever be a bad thing. Paul explains this on a practical level: if you are a slave and you have the means to secure your freedom then do it. If not, then serve God joyfully in your current situation. You can be content and still take some practical measures to improve your situation. If you are single, all you need to do is ask out women who you find interesting as a potential match and put yourself in situations to meet new people ( if you desire that). What more can you really do anyway ?

Also, some single people are perfectly fine as they currently are and are single because they have not been able to meet the right person. It's not always that the single person has faults that they need to overcome. In fact, keep maturing spiritually and your options for dating will probably dwindle lol. It's sad, but it is true that the closer you draw to God the less you will have in common with most others. If you feel you have faults to overcome then work on overcoming those for God. Not for some future spouse who will have her own faults lol. It's much better to focus on serving God and being transformed for his sake then to try to become the perfect person for another flawed person. I wouldn't torture yourself that you are on some long quest to improve yourself to eventually be worthy of the love of some woman. That's going to be very disappointing when the quest ends However, you will never be disappointed if you focus on serving God more effectively.