Truth in Other Religions?

[Postvieww]

True. God is not in the business of deceiving us. Satan is.



Please keep in mind that the ones whom Jesus described as being deceived believed themselves pure of heart and followers of Jesus and even though they did they were still called evildoers or workers of lawlessness. So it isn't how we evaluate ourselves because we might be mistaken. It is how God evaluates us. How many of supposedly pure hearts were praying for miracles during WWI and WWII for God to help them to slaughter fellow ""Christians" on the other side?

I don’t believe an unsaved person can have a pure heart. They may be sincere and have good intentions, but that is far different from a pure heart before God. My statement started with a born again believer. I believe one can be wrong in some of their theology and still be pure before God, we are still growing and learning. All are not at the same stage of development as a Christian, but we should be sure of our salvation, but I do get the point you were making.

 

[All4Christ]

Good question. Jesus said an evil and adulterous people would seek after signs and yet he himself performed many miracles. I think it will be an issue of discernment. Paul referred to "lying signs and wonders".

The Revelation includes 2 teams of 2, both performing miracles; there's the two witnesses and the false prophet + Beast. The two witness shoot fire out of their mouths and the FP / Beast call fire down from Heaven. Anyone hoping to discern the good guys from the bad guys based on miracles will almost certainly be deceived.

What we really need to look at is what the person doing the miracles teaches when they are not performing miracles. If what they teach is consistent with what Jesus taught, then the miracles are probably genuine. If what they teach is NOT consitent with the cornerstone, then the miracles are probably lying signs and wonders.

Simon the Magus is an example of this.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Simon the Magus is an example of this.

Good point.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

They may be sincere

Interesting observation. I'm curious as to how you'd define "sincere".

 

[Postvieww]

Interesting observation. I'm curious as to how you'd define "sincere".

LDS, Jehovah Witnesses, Islam, and any other groups that do not accept the basic tenants of Christianity and the Holy Bible as the complete revelation of God for man, most in these type groups are completely “sincere” in their belief they have found the way to God. That in and of its self is not the way of salvation.





Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.





Our God can and does work in spite of the “sincerity” of some of these other belief systems and save souls in spite of where they are and what they have been taught. It is God’s mercy and sovereignty at work when that happens, not the “sincerity” fervor or devotion to a false way to God. Just look at the apostle Paul he was very “sincere” before he met Christ, but he was “sincerely” wrong. Hope that helps explain what I meant.

 

[ArmyMatt]

do not accept the basic tenants of Christianity and the Holy Bible as the complete revelation of God for man,

the problem here is that even most mainline Christians don't agree with the basic tenants of Christianity, and nowhere in the Bible does it say what the basic tenants actually are. and while most Christians accept the authority of Scripture, even those who agree that the Scripture is THE revelation of God to man, disagree on what the means and what Scripture says.

so there are a lot of sincerely wrong folk out there.

 

[Postvieww]

the problem here is that even most mainline Christians don't agree with the basic tenants of Christianity, and nowhere in the Bible does it say what the basic tenants actually are. and while most Christians accept the authority of Scripture, even those who agree that the Scripture is THE revelation of God to man, disagree on what the means and what Scripture says.

so there are a lot of sincerely wrong folk out there.

ArmyMatt said:

the problem here is that even most mainline Christians don't agree with the basic tenants of Christianity,



In some cases you are absolutely right!



and nowhere in the Bible does it say what the basic tenants actually are.



Disagree here!


The theme throughout the New Testament is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. The gospel message preached throughout the book of Acts.





1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;


2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.




3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;




4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:





Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,




2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.



and while most Christians accept the authority of Scripture, even those who agree that the Scripture is THE revelation of God to man, disagree on what the means and what Scripture says.



True, how many of our churches do not accept even all of basic “principlals of the doctrine of Christ” laid out here in Hebrews 6?





Jesus will sort out all of that.



Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.




21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.




22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?




23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



so there are a lot of sincerely wrong folk out there.



Sad but true!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but since this question was asked in TAW, an Orthodox forum, isn't the question meant to be answered by chrismated Orthodox Christians?

Most of the people who are weighing in and debating are not Orthodox?

Protestantism is severely defective, flawed, and not built on the original rock of Christ. They have Scripture, which was compiled under inspiration of the Holy Spirit by the Orthodox Church. We have ALL the truth, so I don't spend much time pondering who has kernels of it.

I do know that mercy, love, healing, inspiration, and some grace exists in other communions, but the reality of the Christian odyssey is that it is a multi-faceted puzzle. Grace, sacraments, and right teaching must all be there in their entirety, not just fragments or shadows of them.

 

[buzuxi02]

What’s your opinion of other religions? (both pre-and post Christ)

I do not accept post-Christian religions as legitimate. In fact I reject Islam, Bahai and even modern day Judaism. The faith of Abraham is not one of genetics as Judaism and Islam tells us. Christ said he can raise up children from rocks. Likewise the other Abrahamic claiming religion is nothing but an offshoot of islam. There entire legitimacy rests on the pseudo-dogma of Islam that God sends prophets of ones own language and nationality to each nation. Hence to the Farsi Persians was sent the founder of bahai.

The rehash of pagan cults such as wicca is just occult nonsense.

Now pre-Christian religions have their place. Christ said to search the scriptures for they speak of him. All these religions contain prophecies of the coming messiah. Every pre-Christian corpus of writings from mythologies to philosophies and religious texts contain prophecies of Christ, whether Native American or Chinese or ancient African folklore. This is the entire reason as to why Fr. Seraphim Rose wrote the book the Eternal Tao. He saw in the Tao Te Ching many prophecies of Christ.
In Greek mythology Prometheus is a type for Christ. He took fire from Olympus (heaven) and gave it to man. Christ is the Light that comes down from heaven which illuminates man. Prometheus was punished by being bound on the side of a mountain where an eagle would descend and eat his liver. Christ was bound on a cross where a roman soldier bearing an eagle on his breastplate pierced his side.
Even the pagan re-enactment every 4 years of the modern Olympic games where they use the sun to fire up a couldron and an actress (virgin) first receives the light and then from her its passed on from one athlete to another. . This is an ancient prophecy of Christianity. Just as the Virgin Mary received God the consuming fire from heaven into her womb and gave us the God-man. The gospel of Christ which is the light of the world is passed on from one nation to the next first the Jews then to the greeks till it was passed off until disciples are made in all nations...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Disagree here!


The theme throughout the New Testament is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. The gospel message preached throughout the book of Acts.





1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;


2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.




3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;




4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:





Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,




2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

and my point being that even if this is the comprehensive list of Christian belief (which no verse here actually claims to be), Christians disagree on what these mean. so it's actually not.

 

[Postvieww]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but since this question was asked in TAW, an Orthodox forum, isn't the question meant to be answered by chrismated Orthodox Christians?

Most of the people who are weighing in and debating are not Orthodox?

Protestantism is severely defective, flawed, and not built on the original rock of Christ. They have Scripture, which was compiled under inspiration of the Holy Spirit by the Orthodox Church. We have ALL the truth, so I don't spend much time pondering who has kernels of it.

I do know that mercy, love, healing, inspiration, and some grace exists in other communions, but the reality of the Christian odyssey is that it is a multi-faceted puzzle. Grace, sacraments, and right teaching must all be there in their entirety, not just fragments or shadows of them.

Do you feel I have violated these rules?

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Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2015

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Did I address you personally, Post??

Do you feel I have violated these rules?

Community Rules:

All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules. In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2015

 

[E.C.]

What’s your opinion of other religions? (both pre-and post Christ)

• Do they contain some truth?
• In what way would God work through those teachings, if at all?
• What about miraculous events occurring in other faiths?

I'm going to do this thing I do where I come into the thread ignoring the existing conversation to answer the OP as simply as possible.

1) Some Truth, yes. All of it, no. We as Orthodox can only say where the Holy Spirit is and operates, but we can not say where He is not. It would be wrong to say He can not be outside the Church because that would be limiting His work and thus make God no longer omnipotent or omnipresent. We Orthodox can acknowledge that other faiths have some or elements of Truth to them, but we will ultimately maintain that the Truth and the True Faith are to be found within the Orthodox Church.

2) One example that comes to mind is the veneration of icons and the Alaskan Native religion. As Orthodox we refer to/call our icons "windows to heaven". The Native Alaskans, in their pre-Christian religion, had these ceremonial masks which resembled human faces and had a third eye which they said was their "window to heaven". When Orthodox missionaries to Alaska learned about the faith of the Natives and learned about this third eye they asked how they came up with it and were told that men in white clothing told them to put this third eye in. I don't think it is unreasonable to believe the Lord would send angels to leave little breadcrumbs of Truth like that in order to long-term prepare them for Christianity.
Besides, God works however He wants. If someone's exposure to, say,Rastafarianism leads them eventually to Orthodoxy than so be it.

3) Not a clue. That's above my paygrade.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and I should say as far as the miraculous happening elsewhere. only God can truly judge. could some pagan healing be of God? yes. could it be a demonic false healing and deception? yes. could it be something else? yes.