Truth and Lies

[Christsfreeservant]

Not everyone tells the truth. Not everyone can be trusted. There are many people who tell lies habitually, i.e. it is their practice. Many times they believe their own lies, too, and even if they do hear the truth, and even if they do acknowledge the truth some of the time, “when the rubber meets the road,” i.e. “the point at which a theory or idea is put to a practical test,” (1) they revert right back to the familiar lies they have always told others, including the ones they have told themselves. And, it is a vicious cycle.

The Lord Jesus led me to read Philippians 1:15-21 (NIV).

It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Vv. 15-18a​

Is it possible to tell the truth and lie at the same time? I think that is what this is about. Technically, what someone says may be truth, including biblical truth, but the lie is that they don’t really believe what they are preaching or teaching, because they are not putting it into practice themselves. They know intellectually that what they are pontificating is truth, but it is not a reality in their own lives, thus what they are doing is living a lie. They are talking beyond their walk, while giving the impression that they are living what they are preaching. Jesus had a name for this: hypocrite.

This is certainly not to say that we have to reach sinless perfection before we can teach the Word of God to others, but we should not be lecturing others on what they should be doing if we are doing the opposite, i.e. if we are not putting those truths into practice. And, especially this is true if we are giving the impression that we are following the truth which we are professing, by not admitting our own shortcomings in those areas. Thus, we should not be preaching in order to give a false impression of ourselves, either to puff ourselves up, or for the purpose to make another look bad. We need to walk the talk, in other words, and not just give lip service only.

But, if the truth is being preached, we should thank God for that. Many are not preaching the truth at all. And, that is a very sad reality indeed.

Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. Vv. 18b-19​

It is difficult to understand how, if someone is preaching biblical truth, that it can be harmful to another, or how that would equate persecuting another. For, it is clear that Paul was giving praise to God that truth was being preached, and he would not do that if the person was teaching a false gospel. Yet, the truth was being preached from impure motives, and the motives apparently were to somehow hurt the ministry of the apostle.

Several things come to mind here, though. One of them is that someone, who may be sinning against another, and about whom the offended party was trying to seek help, might put on a show of righteousness to try to make themselves appear to be above board when truly they are not. What this would do, then, is to make the offended party look bad, and to try to get others to rally around themselves and to reject anything the offended party might try to say, so that they could continue in their sin unhindered.

Another thing that comes to mind, and this is not in the realm of biblical truth, is that we can speak truth about someone but to do so with wrong (impure) motives, wishing to harm that other person, and not for the purpose to help him or her. This would be something, although true, that is said out of spite, to get even with someone, and to cause them harm. So, if we must speak the truth, we must do so with God-like love that truly has that person’s welfare (wholeness) as the top priority, or which has other people’s wholeness in mind, because other people might be believing their lies. This might be warning people about false teachers and false gospels.

I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. Vv. 20-21​

The bottom line here is that we can injure others, perhaps on purpose, because of impure motives, by giving people false impressions, which are lies, and which lead people to believe things which are just not true, and which might lead people to reject someone who is truly walking in uprightness with God, all the while appearing righteous ourselves. And, we might do this because we are jealous of the other person, too.

But, if we are the injured party, and we are being faced with this kind of treatment from others, ourselves, we can be encouraged that Jesus went through the same stuff for us, so we are not alone. We can follow his example in how he responded to unfair treatment all throughout his ministry. And, we can realize that Jesus suffered for us, not just so he could save us from our sins, but so he could sympathize with us in our suffering.

We need to have this attitude that our lives are no longer our own, for we were bought back for God with the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on a cross for us, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. We must understand, as well, that we are not only called to holiness and righteousness, but we are called to suffer for the sake of the name of Jesus, and for the sake of his gospel, so we should rejoice that we are being counted worthy to suffer for the sake of his gospel. Amen!

If our lives are in Christ Jesus, and they are his, to be lived for his purposes, and our lives truly are about serving our Lord and being Jesus to the world, then we must accept persecution as par for the course, and we should not let it discourage us or “take us out,” as the saying goes. We should keep pressing on in the power and working of the Holy Spirit in our lives in doing what God has called us to do, and give our persecutors over to the Lord.

And, we must forgive them, whoever they are, and no matter what they have done to us. But, forgiveness is not blindness when it comes to sin. It is freeing the offender from the penalty of their sin, but it is not going soft on sin, for this is how God forgives us. He doesn’t ignore our sin, but he delivers us out of our sin. Forgiveness should always have as its goal to see the other person, if they are still living, to also know Jesus Christ and his grace and healing, and his deliverance from bondage to sin.

Depending on the situation, we might be part of that process, or we may be someone who can only pray for the person to know the grace of God in their lives, and to find true freedom from their bondage to sin to where they are no longer those who practice lying and deceiving, but they are truth tellers.

All Through the Night
An Original Work / December 7, 2013

Based off Various Scriptures

Blessed are you when you’re persecuted
Because of your faith in Jesus Christ.
Blessed are you when people insult you,
And falsely say what leads folks to doubt.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is
Great in the heavens. You’re not alone.

When you are persecuted in one place,
Flee to another. God will be there.
You will be hated by all the nations
Because you testify of God’s grace.
Many will seize you and persecute you,
And put to death the foll’wers of Christ.

Yet, do not fear what humans may do to you,
For I’m with you all through the night.
I tell you, love your enemies with my love,
And forgive as I forgave you.
Pray for those who do evil against you.
Rest in my love and grace from above.

Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 6:58 a.m. – Thank you, Jesus, for what you did for us in dying for our sins so that we can be free from our slavery to sin and we can walk in your righteousness and holiness, by your grace. Amen!

Resources:

(1) Google Dictionary definition of “When the rubber meets the road.”

 

[brinny]

Not everyone tells the truth. Not everyone can be trusted. There are many people who tell lies habitually, i.e. it is their practice. Many times they believe their own lies, too, and even if they do hear the truth, and even if they do acknowledge the truth some of the time, “when the rubber meets the road,” i.e. “the point at which a theory or idea is put to a practical test,” (1) they revert right back to the familiar lies they have always told others, including the ones they have told themselves. And, it is a vicious cycle.

The Lord Jesus led me to read Philippians 1:15-21 (NIV).

It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Vv. 15-18a​

Is it possible to tell the truth and lie at the same time? I think that is what this is about. Technically, what someone says may be truth, including biblical truth, but the lie is that they don’t really believe what they are preaching or teaching, because they are not putting it into practice themselves. They know intellectually that what they are pontificating is truth, but it is not a reality in their own lives, thus what they are doing is living a lie. They are talking beyond their walk, while giving the impression that they are living what they are preaching. Jesus had a name for this: hypocrite.

This is certainly not to say that we have to reach sinless perfection before we can teach the Word of God to others, but we should not be lecturing others on what they should be doing if we are doing the opposite, i.e. if we are not putting those truths into practice. And, especially this is true if we are giving the impression that we are following the truth which we are professing, by not admitting our own shortcomings in those areas. Thus, we should not be preaching in order to give a false impression of ourselves, either to puff ourselves up, or for the purpose to make another look bad. We need to walk the talk, in other words, and not just give lip service only.

But, if the truth is being preached, we should thank God for that. Many are not preaching the truth at all. And, that is a very sad reality indeed.

Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and God’s provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. Vv. 18b-19​

It is difficult to understand how, if someone is preaching biblical truth, that it can be harmful to another, or how that would equate persecuting another. For, it is clear that Paul was giving praise to God that truth was being preached, and he would not do that if the person was teaching a false gospel. Yet, the truth was being preached from impure motives, and the motives apparently were to somehow hurt the ministry of the apostle.

Several things come to mind here, though. One of them is that someone, who may be sinning against another, and about whom the offended party was trying to seek help, might put on a show of righteousness to try to make themselves appear to be above board when truly they are not. What this would do, then, is to make the offended party look bad, and to try to get others to rally around themselves and to reject anything the offended party might try to say, so that they could continue in their sin unhindered.

Another thing that comes to mind, and this is not in the realm of biblical truth, is that we can speak truth about someone but to do so with wrong (impure) motives, wishing to harm that other person, and not for the purpose to help him or her. This would be something, although true, that is said out of spite, to get even with someone, and to cause them harm. So, if we must speak the truth, we must do so with God-like love that truly has that person’s welfare (wholeness) as the top priority, or which has other people’s wholeness in mind, because other people might be believing their lies. This might be warning people about false teachers and false gospels.

I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. Vv. 20-21​

The bottom line here is that we can injure others, perhaps on purpose, because of impure motives, by giving people false impressions, which are lies, and which lead people to believe things which are just not true, and which might lead people to reject someone who is truly walking in uprightness with God, all the while appearing righteous ourselves. And, we might do this because we are jealous of the other person, too.

But, if we are the injured party, and we are being faced with this kind of treatment from others, ourselves, we can be encouraged that Jesus went through the same stuff for us, so we are not alone. We can follow his example in how he responded to unfair treatment all throughout his ministry. And, we can realize that Jesus suffered for us, not just so he could save us from our sins, but so he could sympathize with us in our suffering.

We need to have this attitude that our lives are no longer our own, for we were bought back for God with the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on a cross for us, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. We must understand, as well, that we are not only called to holiness and righteousness, but we are called to suffer for the sake of the name of Jesus, and for the sake of his gospel, so we should rejoice that we are being counted worthy to suffer for the sake of his gospel. Amen!

If our lives are in Christ Jesus, and they are his, to be lived for his purposes, and our lives truly are about serving our Lord and being Jesus to the world, then we must accept persecution as par for the course, and we should not let it discourage us or “take us out,” as the saying goes. We should keep pressing on in the power and working of the Holy Spirit in our lives in doing what God has called us to do, and give our persecutors over to the Lord.

And, we must forgive them, whoever they are, and no matter what they have done to us. But, forgiveness is not blindness when it comes to sin. It is freeing the offender from the penalty of their sin, but it is not going soft on sin, for this is how God forgives us. He doesn’t ignore our sin, but he delivers us out of our sin. Forgiveness should always have as its goal to see the other person, if they are still living, to also know Jesus Christ and his grace and healing, and his deliverance from bondage to sin.

Depending on the situation, we might be part of that process, or we may be someone who can only pray for the person to know the grace of God in their lives, and to find true freedom from their bondage to sin to where they are no longer those who practice lying and deceiving, but they are truth tellers.

All Through the Night
An Original Work / December 7, 2013

Based off Various Scriptures

Blessed are you when you’re persecuted
Because of your faith in Jesus Christ.
Blessed are you when people insult you,
And falsely say what leads folks to doubt.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is
Great in the heavens. You’re not alone.

When you are persecuted in one place,
Flee to another. God will be there.
You will be hated by all the nations
Because you testify of God’s grace.
Many will seize you and persecute you,
And put to death the foll’wers of Christ.

Yet, do not fear what humans may do to you,
For I’m with you all through the night.
I tell you, love your enemies with my love,
And forgive as I forgave you.
Pray for those who do evil against you.
Rest in my love and grace from above.

Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 6:58 a.m. – Thank you, Jesus, for what you did for us in dying for our sins so that we can be free from our slavery to sin and we can walk in your righteousness and holiness, by your grace. Amen!

Resources:

(1) Google Dictionary definition of “When the rubber meets the road.”

Amen, Sue. There were many profound points in your message. This one stood out for me, because i have had to do this myself. And that is to just give the person/situation to God, knowing that HE will take it from there. It is as if i have given the burden of it all that i was weighed down with, oppressed by, and continually hurt over and over by, to God. It is no longer "mine". The chains are gone, and a healthy "detachment" takes place, as if the "tentacles" are longer there, strangling me. God works it out from there to be genuinely free and to pray for that person, but leaving them, and all the worries of it all, with God.

God bless you Sue, for this powerful and profound message.

 

[Almost there]

I think the most important word in the english language is "why". It is the difference between first degree murder and killing in self defense. It speaks to the motives behind actions and words. For some, helping the poor is a way to show others how good they are. For others, it is just what comes naturally and they feel really good after they do it, so they do it a lot. For others, it is difficult, but because Jesus told them to, they force themselves to do it, and also attempt to keep it secret since that is also what Jesus told them to do.

Of those three, which has the most pure motive? Which one has the scripturally strongest "why" behind the action?

I would like to propose that it is the third one.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Amen, Sue. There were many profound points in your message. This one stood out for me, because i have had to do this myself. And that is to just give the person/situation to God, knowing that HE will take it from there. It is as if i have given the burden of it all that i was weighed down with, oppressed by, and continually hurt over and over by, to God. It is no longer "mine". The chains are gone, and a healthy "detachment" takes place, as if the "tentacles" are longer there, strangling me. God works it out from there to be genuinely free and to pray for that person, but leaving them, and all the worries of it all, with God.

God bless you Sue, for this powerful and profound message.

Amen! I am still having to do this, i.e. as new situations arise, I have to give them to God, let him heal my heart, and go forward in his grace and not let my circumstances get the best of me. So, I am with you in this. And, yes, it is very freeing indeed.

 

[brinny]

I forgot to add this (what i intended to quote from your writings)....

give our persecutors over to the Lord.

It's what caught my attention so powerfully, and that is to GIVE over to God, our persecutors and enemies, etc.

Amen.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I think the most important word in the english language is "why". It is the difference between first degree murder and killing in self defense. It speaks to the motives behind actions and words. For some, helping the poor is a way to show others how good they are. For others, it is just what comes naturally and they feel really good after they do it, so they do it a lot. For others, it is difficult, but because Jesus told them to, they force themselves to do it, and also attempt to keep it secret since that is also what Jesus told them to do.

Of those three, which has the most pure motive? Which one has the scripturally strongest "why" behind the action?

I would like to propose that it is the third one.

Maybe there is a number 4. If the Holy Spirit is living within us, and Christ is living his life out through us, as we surrender our all to him, out of us should naturally (in the Spirit) flow from us (the fruit of the Spirit) love for others, mercy, grace, etc. It shouldn't have to be forced, but we may have to battle the flesh sometimes in order to yield to the Spirit, so I get that part. And, humility should be natural (in the Spirit), too, because we are following the Spirit and not our flesh, and so we have no desire to brag about what we do. We do it because we love God, because his love is living within us, and because we love others with God-like love.

If you have the time...

Let me give you a personal example of this. Back when I was 32 years old, a long time ago, my preacher preached a sermon on the gifts of the Spirit. I had just spent a very hard year with a very difficult pregnancy where I had to be off my feet, so I had a lot of time with the Lord that year in his Word, and he taught me so much.

Anyway, back to the sermon. The sermon was a call for us to discover our spiritual gifts and to utilize them within the body of Christ, and so they handed out forms for all of us to fill out where we shared what our gifts were and what areas of ministry we would like to be involved in. And, then we handed those in. As I sat listening to the sermon my heart said "Yes!" to Jesus. I wanted to obey him in using the gifts he had given to me to minister to the body of Christ. He had taught me so much that past year, and I knew God wanted me to share what he taught me with others. So, I volunteered to teach.

Time went by and I heard nothing. So, eventually I called the pastor, and so he came out to the house, and we talked, with my husband present, too. The pastor said, "Do you know why we have not asked you to teach?" I said, "No." And, then he spouted out a list of things I can't remember, but that were not true. And, then he said, "Would you say that you have been crucified with Christ?" I said, "Yes," because I knew I was a Christian. He said, "Well, I would say you haven't!"

That crushed me! I felt his words gave me no hope at all, and so I just withdrew, but God wouldn't let me do that. He encouraged me to get back in there and fight this thing through, so I did. Next the elders came to visit us and they started spouting off a bunch of stuff, too. So, I asked them, "What specifically am I doing wrong so I know how to correct it?" They didn't have anything they could tell me, so they just said, "You pray about it, and you will see." Not much help there.

Anyway, in the course of the conversation, what they told me is that if they wanted to serve God it was because they wanted to be seen of men. Wow! And, these were the church elders. So, they judged me by themselves and they assumed that if I volunteered for church service that I obviously was doing it because I wanted to be seen of men. I am not going to go into the whole story here, though, but God led in a miraculous way to where I worked with the pastor in doing what he told me to do and eventually he came back and told me that they were wrong about me.

The short of it is that we must be careful that we don't judge people's motives wrongly or assume if what someone does seems natural to them, that it is more godly to do something if you are forced into doing it. I think that is kind of the message they were giving me, that since I had such a heart for God to obey him and I desired to do his will that obviously my motives must be wrong, and that the more godly way, according to them, was just to sit back and do nothing until someone asked me to do it.

So, I vote for #4. I believe it is a combination of your #2 and #3 but that it represents more where we all should be, which is sold out to Christ, with his Spirit moving within us to serve him, not because we have to, but because we want to, because we are being moved of the Spirit and out of a heart of love and compassion we serve Christ.

 

[brinny]

Maybe there is a number 4. If the Holy Spirit is living within us, and Christ is living his life out through us, as we surrender our all to him, out of us should naturally (in the Spirit) flow from us (the fruit of the Spirit) love for others, mercy, grace, etc. It shouldn't have to be forced, but we may have to battle the flesh sometimes in order to yield to the Spirit, so I get that part. And, humility should be natural (in the Spirit), too, because we are following the Spirit and not our flesh, and so we have no desire to brag about what we do. We do it because we love God, because his love is living within us, and because we love others with God-like love.

If you have the time...

Let me give you a personal example of this. Back when I was 32 years old, a long time ago, my preacher preached a sermon on the gifts of the Spirit. I had just spent a very hard year with a very difficult pregnancy where I had to be off my feet, so I had a lot of time with the Lord that year in his Word, and he taught me so much.

Anyway, back to the sermon. The sermon was a call for us to discover our spiritual gifts and to utilize them within the body of Christ, and so they handed out forms for all of us to fill out where we shared what our gifts were and what areas of ministry we would like to be involved in. And, then we handed those in. As I sat listening to the sermon my heart said "Yes!" to Jesus. I wanted to obey him in using the gifts he had given to me to minister to the body of Christ. He had taught me so much that past year, and I knew God wanted me to share what he taught me with others. So, I volunteered to teach.

Time went by and I heard nothing. So, eventually I called the pastor, and so he came out to the house, and we talked, with my husband present, too. The pastor said, "Do you know why we have not asked you to teach?" I said, "No." And, then he spouted out a list of things I can't remember, but that were not true. And, then he said, "Would you say that you have been crucified with Christ?" I said, "Yes," because I knew I was a Christian. He said, "Well, I would say you haven't!"

That crushed me! I felt his words gave me no hope at all, and so I just withdrew, but God wouldn't let me do that. He encouraged me to get back in there and fight this thing through, so I did. Next the elders came to visit us and they started spouting off a bunch of stuff, too. So, I asked them, "What specifically am I doing wrong so I know how to correct it?" They didn't have anything they could tell me, so they just said, "You pray about it, and you will see." Not much help there.

Anyway, in the course of the conversation, what they told me is that if they wanted to serve God it was because they wanted to be seen of men. Wow! And, these were the church elders. So, they judged me by themselves and they assumed that if I volunteered for church service that I obviously was doing it because I wanted to be seen of men. I am not going to go into the whole story here, though, but God led in a miraculous way to where I worked with the pastor in doing what he told me to do and eventually he came back and told me that they were wrong about me.

The short of it is that we must be careful that we don't judge people's motives wrongly or assume if what someone does seems natural to them, that it is more godly to do something if you are forced into doing it. I think that is kind of the message they were giving me, that since I had such a heart for God to obey him and I desired to do his will that obviously my motives must be wrong, and that the more godly way, according to them, was just to sit back and do nothing until someone asked me to do it.

So, I vote for #4. I believe it is a combination of your #2 and #3 but that it represents more where we all should be, which is sold out to Christ, with his Spirit moving within us to serve him, not because we have to, but because we want to, because we are being moved of the Spirit and out of a heart of love and compassion we serve Christ.

Amen Sue.

 

[Almost there]

Maybe there is a number 4. If the Holy Spirit is living within us, and Christ is living his life out through us, as we surrender our all to him, out of us should naturally (in the Spirit) flow from us (the fruit of the Spirit) love for others, mercy, grace, etc. It shouldn't have to be forced, but we may have to battle the flesh sometimes in order to yield to the Spirit, so I get that part. And, humility should be natural (in the Spirit), too, because we are following the Spirit and not our flesh, and so we have no desire to brag about what we do. We do it because we love God, because his love is living within us, and because we love others with God-like love.

If you have the time...

Let me give you a personal example of this. Back when I was 32 years old, a long time ago, my preacher preached a sermon on the gifts of the Spirit. I had just spent a very hard year with a very difficult pregnancy where I had to be off my feet, so I had a lot of time with the Lord that year in his Word, and he taught me so much.

Anyway, back to the sermon. The sermon was a call for us to discover our spiritual gifts and to utilize them within the body of Christ, and so they handed out forms for all of us to fill out where we shared what our gifts were and what areas of ministry we would like to be involved in. And, then we handed those in. As I sat listening to the sermon my heart said "Yes!" to Jesus. I wanted to obey him in using the gifts he had given to me to minister to the body of Christ. He had taught me so much that past year, and I knew God wanted me to share what he taught me with others. So, I volunteered to teach.

Time went by and I heard nothing. So, eventually I called the pastor, and so he came out to the house, and we talked, with my husband present, too. The pastor said, "Do you know why we have not asked you to teach?" I said, "No." And, then he spouted out a list of things I can't remember, but that were not true. And, then he said, "Would you say that you have been crucified with Christ?" I said, "Yes," because I knew I was a Christian. He said, "Well, I would say you haven't!"

That crushed me! I felt his words gave me no hope at all, and so I just withdrew, but God wouldn't let me do that. He encouraged me to get back in there and fight this thing through, so I did. Next the elders came to visit us and they started spouting off a bunch of stuff, too. So, I asked them, "What specifically am I doing wrong so I know how to correct it?" They didn't have anything they could tell me, so they just said, "You pray about it, and you will see." Not much help there.

Anyway, in the course of the conversation, what they told me is that if they wanted to serve God it was because they wanted to be seen of men. Wow! And, these were the church elders. So, they judged me by themselves and they assumed that if I volunteered for church service that I obviously was doing it because I wanted to be seen of men. I am not going to go into the whole story here, though, but God led in a miraculous way to where I worked with the pastor in doing what he told me to do and eventually he came back and told me that they were wrong about me.

The short of it is that we must be careful that we don't judge people's motives wrongly or assume if what someone does seems natural to them, that it is more godly to do something if you are forced into doing it. I think that is kind of the message they were giving me, that since I had such a heart for God to obey him and I desired to do his will that obviously my motives must be wrong, and that the more godly way, according to them, was just to sit back and do nothing until someone asked me to do it.

So, I vote for #4. I believe it is a combination of your #2 and #3 but that it represents more where we all should be, which is sold out to Christ, with his Spirit moving within us to serve him, not because we have to, but because we want to, because we are being moved of the Spirit and out of a heart of love and compassion we serve Christ.

I have not read your whole post yet, but I will say this: I left out number 4 on purpose. It was outside the scope of the point I was trying to make.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I have not read your whole post yet, but I will say this: I left out number 4 on purpose. It was outside the scope of the point I was trying to make.

What was the point you were trying to make?

 

[Almost there]

What was the point you were trying to make?

That just because one person appears to be "better" than another, from a human perspective, it does not mean they are saved. And just because a person seems to be worse than another person, doesn't mean they are not saved. Some people were just taught by their parents to be good, and have discovered its rewards, and yet are not Christians. Others had no such upbringing and have found Jesus, but being good is a challenge because it is not ingrained in their lifelong training.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

That just because one person appears to be "better" than another, from a human perspective, it does not mean they are saved. And just because a person seems to be worse than another person, doesn't mean they are not saved. Some people were just taught by their parents to be good, and have discovered its rewards, and yet are not Christians. Others had no such upbringing and have found Jesus, but being good is a challenge because it is not ingrained in their lifelong training.

I was with you up until this last sentence. And, this is where #4 does come into play. If we are truly in Christ, by faith in him, and we have died with Christ to sin and we have been raised with Christ to new life in him, which is what it means to be "born again," and the Holy Spirit has thus transformed us from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, and he has moved us to leave our lives of sin behind us and to follow Jesus in obedience, and he is living within us, counseling, leading, guiding, equipping, strengthening and empowering us to live godly and holy lives pleasing to God, then it has nothing to do with how we were brought up or what our lifelong training has been.

Yes, these definitely may play a role in how we respond to life's challenges, but we are never good in our own flesh anyway, but only in the power of the Spirit. In the power of God's Spirit living within us we can be free from sin addiction and we can walk in freedom, and his power can help us to overcome all our wrong training. We just have to listen when he speaks, and do what he says, but not in our own strength, but in the power of the Spirit working in and through us as we yield to him and to his work of grace in our lives.

 

[Almost there]

I was with you up until this last sentence. And, this is where #4 does come into play. If we are truly in Christ, by faith in him, and we have died with Christ to sin and we have been raised with Christ to new life in him, which is what it means to be "born again," and the Holy Spirit has thus transformed us from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, and he has moved us to leave our lives of sin behind us and to follow Jesus in obedience, and he is living within us, counseling, leading, guiding, equipping, strengthening and empowering us to live godly and holy lives pleasing to God, then it has nothing to do with how we were brought up or what our lifelong training has been.

Yes, these definitely may play a role in how we respond to life's challenges, but we are never good in our own flesh anyway, but only in the power of the Spirit. In the power of God's Spirit living within us we can be free from sin addiction and we can walk in freedom, and his power can help us to overcome all our wrong training. We just have to listen when he speaks, and do what he says, but not in our own strength, but in the power of the Spirit working in and through us as we yield to him and to his work of grace in our lives.

Hey, we're in agreement. I was discussing that "person from bad parents" as a work in progress, and at a place in his progress where there is still a lot of "perfecting" to be done.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Hey, we're in agreement. I was discussing that "person from bad parents" as a work in progress, and at a place in his progress where there is still a lot of "perfecting" to be done.

We are all a work in progress. I did not have good parents. My mom was not a bad person, just distant, not involved with me emotionally, never praised me, never said "I love you" but she showed love in sewing, cooking, taking care of me when I was sick, etc. But, my dad was an abuser, beat my mother and us kids, yelled and screamed all the time, was nasty and hateful, and was a Jeckel/Hyde, like a time bomb, and we never knew when it was going to go off. And he sexually abused some of us, was a big bully who picked on or beat up everyone weaker than him, that he could, and was scary as hell, to put it mildly. So, I had a lot to overcome, so I get that.

But, it was the love and grace of Jesus living in me and through me and the power of God's Holy Spirit working in my life which not only taught me right from wrong, but gave me the power and strength and motivation to reject the lies and to embrace the truth and to follow my Lord in obedience. I was not instantly perfect, and this has been a lifelong process of God changing me, maturing me, and transforming me, etc.

But, I know that I could not be who I am and do what I do if it were not for the grace of God and his power at work within me (#4). If I had to rely on my upbringing to help me to walk in faith, and to do good or be good, I would never make it! Or, if I looked at my upbringing as a stumbling point to my ability to do good or be good, I would never make it, either. I have to know that the only way I am going to be able to do good or be good is in the strength of the Lord, and not in my own.

There is an old song which says,
"It's not in trying But in trusting
It's not in running But in resting
Not in wondering But in praying
That we find the strength of the Lord."

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Hey, we're in agreement. I was discussing that "person from bad parents" as a work in progress, and at a place in his progress where there is still a lot of "perfecting" to be done.

One more thought the Lord brought to mind. Although we are all a work in progress, we should all be walking in the light that we have. Many people will find excuses for not walking in the light that they know, saying that they are in process, but there is no excuse for any of us not to walk in the light that we presently have, because the Spirit will enable us to do so. We just have to yield to him.

 

[Almost there]

One more thought the Lord brought to mind. Although we are all a work in progress, we should all be walking in the light that we have. Many people will find excuses for not walking in the light that they know, saying that they are in process, but there is no excuse for any of us not to walk in the light that we presently have, because the Spirit will enable us to do so. We just have to yield to him.

What do you mean by "walking in the light that we have"?

 

[Christsfreeservant]

What do you mean by "walking in the light that we have"?

I mean that Christians know right from wrong. They know what the Bible teaches on certain subjects. But, they do wrong and they don't do right, sometimes, even though they know the good they ought to do and the bad that they are not to do.

New believers won't be aware of everything all at once, but they will have a basic sense of right and wrong. But, as they grow in Christ they will learn more. But, as we learn more, and we become aware of more truth (light) we are to live in that light (truth) and not as though we are still in the darkness and we don't know any better.

I hear many Christians make excuses for doing what they know is wrong and for not doing what they know is right, and one of the big ones is that the Christian life is a process, and that we are maturing at our own pace, or that they are "struggling" with sin, which means they are willfully giving in to it, etc. They will use, "I am not perfect," as an excuse for living in sin and for "struggling," too.

So, although it is true that we all mature at different paces, and that we are not perfect people, and that new believers are not going to have quite the understanding about the deeper things of scripture that a more mature believer might, we should walk (in lifestyle, conducting our lives) in the knowledge that we have already been given, and not excuse away willful sin on the basis of lack of perfection or past history or anything else that we might find to excuse away doing what we know is wrong and not doing what we know is right.

So, while we may all still have room to grow, and we will still have things to learn, we should live what we already know and not find excuses to not do what we know is right. A good example of this is Nicodemus, John 3.