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Trusting in the Sovereignty of God

Jon_

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ruby_redeemed said:
Question for the Calvinist:



Do you believe that taking birth control, or having health insurance is not trusting in the Sovereignty of God? If you do believe this, can you tell me why, if not why?

Though it's out of order, I'll take health insurance first. To me, it is irresponsible to not have health insurance. The cost of health care today is exorbitant. Just one major problem could put you in debt for the rest of your life. God exhorts us in his Scriptures to owe no man anything. Unfortunately, we've accepted the premise that car payments, mortgage payments, and all other sorts of debts are a natural part of modern living, and in truth, they are; however, we should endeavor to stave off the potential crippling debt of medical bills. Additionally, not having health insurance increases the burden on the health care system. Most of the time, hospitals and other care providers get only what insurances covers because many people feel that health care is a right and not a privilege. It is not a right: it is a privilege; therefore, we are accountable for the reception of it. We are accountable to the financial obligations that come according to the privilege: just as we are accountable to spread the Gospel according to the privilege of being chosen.

On birth control, I'll say simply that, if God wants you to have a child, then by God, you're going to have a child! I think that birth control lends to responsibility again. Paul teaches that husband and wife are not to deprive each other, but many couples recognize and understand that they are not equipped--financially, by maturity, or by some other reason--to care for a child (yet). In these cases, we should honor the Word and each other by not depriving the other of intimacy, but at the same time, we should realize that it might be too soon for a child. This has nothing to do with not trusting God, it has everything to do with being cognizent of the order by which he has ordained all things. Sex without birth control between two healthy adults will result in children. In conscious consideration of this fact, I do not see how a couple could honestly not be trusting in God to use birth control. They acknowledge the order he has created and have reasoned that the time is not right for child-rearing. If, in prayerful consideration and the loving fear of God, they decide to use means to prevent a pregancy, then that is okay. Sex was not intented only for procreation. If it were, it would be an wholly instinctive act, just as nature shows it to be. Instead, it is a joyful moment of intimacy between two people in the sight of God. Read the Song of Solomon if you deny this: God delights when man and wife delight in each other according to his will.

I think it's quite safe to say that we, especially as Calvinists, understand completely that God is totally sovereign. Whether we have insurance or not, whether we use birth control or not, it matters not to God. Did he not impregnate Marry, a virgin, with our Lord and Savior? So then, how much can he defeat the human technology of birth control, and so much more can he ordain injury upon us or not. Who are we to reply against God? Therefore, I believe it is safe to conclude that we should act responsibly according to our circumstances. We should keep health insurance, as it is fitting for a responsible adult. And we should use birth control if child-rearing is not possible for certain reasons.
 
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Wilfred of Ivanhoe

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ruby_redeemed said:
Question for the Calvinist:



Do you believe that taking birth control, or having health insurance is not trusting in the Sovereignty of God? If you do believe this, can you tell me why, if not why?


Good question, and one that I was meditating upon earlier in the day. On health insurance, I agree. We put our trust in God, but we are also faithful stewards of what God gives us.

I am unsure of what God's written Word says about birth control. In areas such as this, I look to Paul's saying that what is not of faith is sin. My wife and I could never take birth control in faith, so we do not.
 
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ruby_redeemed

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Jon_ said:
Though it's out of order, I'll take health insurance first. To me, it is irresponsible to not have health insurance. The cost of health care today is exorbitant. Just one major problem could put you in debt for the rest of your life. God exhorts us in his Scriptures to owe no man anything. Unfortunately, we've accepted the premise that car payments, mortgage payments, and all other sorts of debts are a natural part of modern living, and in truth, they are; however, we should endeavor to stave off the potential crippling debt of medical bills. Additionally, not having health insurance increases the burden on the health care system. Most of the time, hospitals and other care providers get only what insurances covers because many people feel that health care is a right and not a privilege. It is not a right: it is a privilege; therefore, we are accountable for the reception of it. We are accountable to the financial obligations that come according to the privilege: just as we are accountable to spread the Gospel according to the privilege of being chosen.



The reason I ask this question is because I was in a discussion with 2 people, they are Calvinist, that think insurance is a waste of money and that we aren’t trusting God, and what he has already planned for our futures. Well my response was that we are to still be responsible, but I didn’t even think about the debt part. I really appreciate your response on this. Thank You!



Jon_ said:
On birth control, I'll say simply that, if God wants you to have a child, then by God, you're going to have a child! I think that birth control lends to responsibility again. Paul teaches that husband and wife are not to deprive each other, but many couples recognize and understand that they are not equipped--financially, by maturity, or by some other reason--to care for a child (yet). In these cases, we should honor the Word and each other by not depriving the other of intimacy, but at the same time, we should realize that it might be too soon for a child. This has nothing to do with not trusting God, it has everything to do with being cognizent of the order by which he has ordained all things. Sex without birth control between two healthy adults will result in children. In conscious consideration of this fact, I do not see how a couple could honestly not be trusting in God to use birth control. They acknowledge the order he has created and have reasoned that the time is not right for child-rearing. If, in prayerful consideration and the loving fear of God, they decide to use means to prevent a pregancy, then that is okay. Sex was not intented only for procreation. If it were, it would be an wholly instinctive act, just as nature shows it to be. Instead, it is a joyful moment of intimacy between two people in the sight of God. Read the Song of Solomon if you deny this: God delights when man and wife delight in each other according to his will.



This was my opinion on this subject, and you made me think of a really interesting point. This couple that I was talking to don’t have health insurance, and do not use any form of birth control, they are married, they are financially “just skating by” if they were to get pregnant I don’t see how they could continue to live with out insurance!



Jon_ said:
I think it's quite safe to say that we, especially as Calvinists, understand completely that God is totally sovereign. Whether we have insurance or not, whether we use birth control or not, it matters not to God. Did he not impregnate Marry, a virgin, with our Lord and Savior? So then, how much can he defeat the human technology of birth control, and so much more can he ordain injury upon us or not. Who are we to reply against God? Therefore, I believe it is safe to conclude that we should act responsibly according to our circumstances. We should keep health insurance, as it is fitting for a responsible adult. And we should use birth control if child-rearing is not possible for certain reasons.



I thank you so much for your response! :amen:
 
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ruby_redeemed

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Croooz said:
Extrapolate their belief out...

Why continue to work? Why stop with having insurance why not continue with God providing our every need and trusting so much so we will only eat & drink what G-d provides?
That's really funny you said that. I tried that line of thinking, they made the comment that the Bible says to not worry about tomorrow, and I responded with you pay your bills today, so they don't take your house tomorrow, but they just said we pay oour bills so we have a house today. So there answeres were bogus, but at the same time I didn't have any clear verses that would support my thoughts. Can you thin kof any to support your thought because I like that logic.
I can think of one verse, the one that says we need to witness and so we should be out doing something. But do you have any others. Thank You!
 
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cygnusx1

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ruby_redeemed said:
That's really funny you said that. I tried that line of thinking, they made the comment that the Bible says to not worry about tomorrow, and I responded with you pay your bills today, so they don't take your house tomorrow, but they just said we pay oour bills so we have a house today. So there answeres were bogus, but at the same time I didn't have any clear verses that would support my thoughts. Can you thin kof any to support your thought because I like that logic.
I can think of one verse, the one that says we need to witness and so we should be out doing something. But do you have any others. Thank You!

yes ruby_redeemed , Proverbs 6:6-11

here is a page that nicely keeps the balance .......

http://www.bloomington.in.us/~bbangert/sermn438.html
 
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ruby_redeemed

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Antman_05

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ruby_redeemed said:
Question for the Calvinist:



Do you believe that taking birth control, or having health insurance is not trusting in the Sovereignty of God? If you do believe this, can you tell me why, if not why?

I know some ppl who feel that it luck of Faith if they have that kinda stuff, so they don't.

But i would say God has provied it for us so why not use it, i mean not every country has the options of health insurance or birth control.
 
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reformedfan

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Weird that Calvinists would have such a superstitious view of anything, especially God's sovereignty. Have them read Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion", he was never shy about calling out posers ;)
 
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