Trust in God

[michaeldimmickjr]

My wife and I were talking about the gun control issues and what-not tonight and the subject of protecting my family if someone broke in came up. I said that I would do everything in my power to protect my family but I'm not going to take a life in doing it. Furthermore, I said that it doesn't really do us any use to even talk about hypothetical situations because we would be better in just trusting in God and His will for us. As she's explaining her fears, she's physically getting agitated... She's under the impression that you should have a plan for every possible scenario in life...

My wife and I do this all the time. We are completely in love, so don't think that I'm talking about her behind her back or anything

So, I guess my questions are:

As Orthodox Christians- Do we believe that God is in complete control of when we die? Should we completely trust Him in all aspects of our life? I know what my answers are, but I wanted to see how other Orthodox Christians feel.

Michael

 

[spider28x]

Yes read matthew 6:25-33 u will understand that we should not worry bout our life and that god know what we need before u ask him or even know of selfs. But jesus teach us that if we first seek kingdom n his righteousness and all those things will giving to us .read it ur self ur see

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

Hi Michael,

I'm not Orthodox, however I was interested in reading your post. In all honesty that would be a hard question to answer in that situation. One would think to trust God that He would either protect you and your family, stop the person who is doing the harm, or die and trust that you be with Jesus for eternity.

I can understand your wife's fears and emotions. I would probably try my best to protect my family if possible. But it would also be hard to trust God in the situation because of our flesh and our emotions getting the best of us. So that is a tough question to answer.

Moriah Ruth

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Yes read matthew 6:25-33 u will understand that we should not worry bout our life and that god know what we need before u ask him or even know of selfs. But jesus teach us that if we first seek kingdom n his righteousness and all those things will giving to us .read it ur self ur see

Welcome to TAW!

Thanks for the reply. I agree 1000000000000%

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Hi Michael,

I'm not Orthodox, however I was interested in reading your post. In all honesty that would be a hard question to answer in that situation. One would think to trust God that He would either protect you and your family, stop the person who is doing the harm, or die and trust that you be with Jesus for eternity.

I can understand your wife's fears and emotions. I would probably try my best to protect my family if possible. But it would also be hard to trust God in the situation because of our flesh and our emotions getting the best of us. So that is a tough question to answer.

Moriah Ruth

Thank you for your post and your honesty!

Michael

 

[nestoj]

I don't think I could give you an objective answer. All I know is, regarding your introduction into the topic, that none of us knows how he wold react in a situation he/she has not faced before.

Now, is God completely in control of when we die, I'd have to say: He can be, but He chooses not to. At least not usually - sometimes, when the soul is in grave danger, He could allow the body to be hurt in order to "save the soul", or for the testimony to others and glorification of the faithful person...something like that. Anyway, we could trust that God unconditionally loves us, but that doesn't mean He will make the choices for us. If we choose to follow His law of love unconditionally, perhaps He would take upon Him to control everything in our surroundings, like something we could find in a life of a Saint. But I do know that I'm not that good of a christian, so I'm more of the opinion that what happens to me is a consequence of my deeds. That's why I've said I couldn't give an objective answer.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

wow Micheal, that was quick answering.

In some ways I do see your wife's side of it, when she stated that we should have some plan in every possible scenario. However in some ways this is hard to do when it comes at you unexpectedly and you are caught off guard.

Moriah Ruth

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

NESTOJ,

I just read your response. Very good point you made.

Moriah Ruth

 

[nestoj]

NESTOJ,

I just read your response. Very good point you made.

Moriah Ruth

It looks more like an open display of insecurity and ignorance, than a "good point", to me, but thanks.

 

[Gnarwhal]

My wife and I were talking about the gun control issues and what-not tonight and the subject of protecting my family if someone broke in came up. I said that I would do everything in my power to protect my family but I'm not going to take a life in doing it. Furthermore, I said that it doesn't really do us any use to even talk about hypothetical situations because we would be better in just trusting in God and His will for us. As she's explaining her fears, she's physically getting agitated... She's under the impression that you should have a plan for every possible scenario in life...

My wife and I do this all the time. We are completely in love, so don't think that I'm talking about her behind her back or anything

So, I guess my questions are:

As Orthodox Christians- Do we believe that God is in complete control of when we die? Should we completely trust Him in all aspects of our life? I know what my answers are, but I wanted to see how other Orthodox Christians feel.

Michael

I've had the same scenario presented to me and have given the same answer, I'll protect my wife however I can short of killing someone else. I feel like that's the appropriate view because my human nature would love to tear anybody who would harm my family to shreds, so that being the case then it's possible that the opposite would be what God would desire me to do.

Just my .02¢, not sure if that's a proper Orthodox perspective though. Ultimately I want to align with what the Church teaches in this area.

 

[spider28x]

Big fudge. R u say that god want u to kill someone

 

[Gnarwhal]

Big fudge. R u say that god want u to kill someone

Uhm, your typing is a bit hard to read, but if you're asking if I think God would want me to kill somebody, no, that's the opposite of what I'm saying.

 

[spider28x]

Uhm, your typing is a bit hard to read, but if you're asking if I think God would want me to kill somebody, no, that's the opposite of what I'm saying.

Ok big fudge I was just making sure sorry

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

@michaeldimmickjr

I said that I would do everything in my power to protect my family but I'm not going to take a life in doing it - There are Saints in Russia, who spent a big part of life in wars to protect his family, folk, country. Dont think to kill somebody is sin uniquely.

in complete control of when we die... - in short: God can stop life of anyone at any time. We can reduce or increase time of presence in this world by way of life. But as i understood - time is not main thing, quality is more important: somebody can become a Saint in childhood, another will die with life which is empty from affairs pleasing to God.

Should we completely trust Him in all aspects of our life... - ideally yep. Complete trust - level of Saint.

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

I don't think I could give you an objective answer. All I know is, regarding your introduction into the topic, that none of us knows how he wold react in a situation he/she has not faced before.

Now, is God completely in control of when we die, I'd have to say: He can be, but He chooses not to. At least not usually - sometimes, when the soul is in grave danger, He could allow the body to be hurt in order to "save the soul", or for the testimony to others and glorification of the faithful person...something like that. Anyway, we could trust that God unconditionally loves us, but that doesn't mean He will make the choices for us. If we choose to follow His law of love unconditionally, perhaps He would take upon Him to control everything in our surroundings, like something we could find in a life of a Saint. But I do know that I'm not that good of a christian, so I'm more of the opinion that what happens to me is a consequence of my deeds. That's why I've said I couldn't give an objective answer.

Do you have any type of reference that you can give? Not that I doubt or disagree but I am trying to find what the Church actually teaches. Thanks!

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

Does anyone have any references to what the Church Fathers have to say on the matter of how much time we have, etc.? I remember reading something recently, not sure if it was St. Theophan the Recluse or not but he eluded to the fact that God has given us an predetermined amount of time.

Michael

 

[nestoj]

Do you have any type of reference that you can give? Not that I doubt or disagree but I am trying to find what the Church actually teaches. Thanks!

Not really...it's my understanding, and even that is circumstantial. Here goes nothing - Let's take Adam, Eve and Genesis 2:17 into account. God says "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.". He gives them a choice, not exactly the choice of the time of death, but a choice of existence of death. Eat - die, don't eat - live. I conclude from there that, not only time of death of the first of our kind was not predetermined, but also would there be death at all. That's not to say God didn't know it would happen the way it did. Also, not to say that God doesn't know when I, or you, will die. I'm just saying that He didn't choose this for us. He knows what we will do, meaning He knows what choices we will make and how it will end. We still have to make them ourselves, though. I don't think he will be in absolute control over one's life and death.

Moses explained it better in Deuteronomy 30:19

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live."


But, it's implied - "You still may choose curses, if you want to...."

 

[inconsequential]

I spoke with the abbess of a local skete about this and she firmly told me that I have a responsibility to protect my family. I struggle with this issue and take extra precautions because I would have no qualms about killing someone who posed an imminent threat to my family.

 

[michaeldimmickjr]

I read something on another forum that put it this way:

If someone breaks into your house and they are just threatening to take material objects- that's not a worthy cause to take a life.

If someone breaks into your house and is threatening physical harm to your family, only as a last resort would it be acceptable to take a life.

Is this an acceptable Orthodox stance?

Michael

 

[inconsequential]

I read something on another forum that put it this way:

If someone breaks into your house and they are just threatening to take material objects- that's not a worthy cause to take a life.

If someone breaks into your house and is threatening physical harm to your family, only as a last resort would it be acceptable to take a life.

Is this an acceptable Orthodox stance?

Michael

I can't speak for the Church but that pretty much sums up my personal stance.

I would NEVER take a life to protect property.