Trump to almost for sure end the Dreamers Program (illegal immigrants)

[Targaryen]

So yeah, 15 states now suing Trump over the end of DACA.

So deporting people back to countries they weren't born in is clearly such a rule of law that the states are just going to roll over and take it.

15 states, D.C. sue Trump administration over ending DACA; California filing separate suit | Toronto Star

 

[mark46]

So yeah, 15 states now suing Trump over the end of DACA.

So deporting people back to countries they weren't born in is clearly such a rule of law that the states are just going to roll over and take it.

15 states, D.C. sue Trump administration over ending DACA; California filing separate suit | Toronto Star

?? DACA children were not born in the US.

 

[Targaryen]

Is that why in the video with that article listed, they talk about people born in the US being subject to DACA?

I'm not an American, but I don't think they would bring that point up if there wasn't a good reason for it.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So yeah, 15 states now suing Trump over the end of DACA.

So deporting people back to countries they weren't born in is clearly such a rule of law that the states are just going to roll over and take it.

15 states, D.C. sue Trump administration over ending DACA; California filing separate suit | Toronto Star

In order to be guilty of a crime, it must be shown that the accused possessed the mens rea to commit it. Since it's the act of entering the country, not actually existing within it borders, that makes one "legal" or "illegal," it must be shown that these children had the necessary mens rea to commit a federal crime.

Good luck.

 

[cow451]

In order to be guilty of a crime, it must be shown that the accused possessed the mens rea to commit it. Since it's the act of entering the country, not actually existing within it borders, that makes one "legal" or "illegal," it must be shown that these children had the necessary mens rea to commit a federal crime.

Good luck.

 

[Targaryen]

Ha!

 

[Arcangl86]

In order to be guilty of a crime, it must be shown that the accused possessed the mens rea to commit it. Since it's the act of entering the country, not actually existing within it borders, that makes one "legal" or "illegal," it must be shown that these children had the necessary mens rea to commit a federal crime.

Good luck.

Actually illegal entry or overstay of a visa is not by itself a crime, but rather a civil offense. It's a subtle distinction, but an important one.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So how does a six-year-old get it?

 

[Tutorman]

The analogy that I have recently heard to describe the situation is that if you owe the bank a hundred thousand dollars, that is your problem. But if you owe the bank one hundred million dollars, that is the bank's problem.
By allowing illegal aliens to stay in the country for over half their life, the government in effect owns the problem now. Proper enforcement of borders and over-stays and things like e-verify to ensure that all hires are legal, and that all students in all schools are legitimately attending their schools, shifts the burden onto the illegals alone. That kind of enforcement makes it the illegal immgrants problem. and takes the profit out of their illegal activity.
However by cooperating with the illegals until they have built a life in America, the government in effect legitimizes them, and makes them functionally legal.

The fact that the government -and businesses- has been cooperating with the cheaters in order to flood the market with cheap labor, and thereby keep labour costs low and profit margins high makes the government complicit in the illegal acts of the immigrant cheats.

It is not an impossible task to control the border and to control illegal immigration. Just by talking tough, and nothing more, Trump has been able to take a huge chunk out of the flow of illegal immigrants.

That sells well enough to the base and to a majority of Americans who really do want a nation of laws and fairness in the immigration assessment system.
All of a sudden though, even Trump is starting talk like the establishment politicians of the GOP and Dems, and talk with his heart. This is really not compassion talking, is it?. The same people that benefit from a huge pool of cheap workers with no legal rights to be in the country and thereby no avenue to demand rights from their employers, are also the financiers of any politicians election hopes.
Having a 'heart' for this pool of labor really 'hearts' the pockets of these loving politicians.

America's illegal immigration problem would have ended yesterday if their was the political will to end it. Instead the politicians own it.

Very well stated

 

[Allandavid]

Very well stated

No, it's not very well stated because it assumes there is a "problem".....and there doesn't appear to be.

This program, for this specific group of people, seems to be working inordinately well. They are good citizens, they're in full employment or school, pay their taxes, contribute positively to the society, etc. They are also a net benefit economically to the country.

Now, by all means, put a cap on future 'enrolment' if that is desired, but what is to be gained by throwing these people out to countries that are foreign to them, other than mealy-mouthed mean spiritedness...?

 

[Allandavid]

So how does a six-year-old get it?

Indeed. As I stated elsewhere, most civilised countries (I assume that I can include the US?) recognise the concept of an 'age of reason or accountability' for children, before which they cannot be held responsible in a legal sense for their actions. The idea of toddler 'criminals' is absurd...

 

[Non sequitur]

Indeed. As I stated elsewhere, most civilised countries (I assume that I can include the US?) recognise the concept of an 'age of reason or accountability' for children, before which they cannot be held responsible in a legal sense for their actions. The idea of toddler 'criminals' is absurd...

Tudorman completely disagrees. Even a 1 yr old.

 

[Allandavid]

Tudorman completely disagrees. Even a 1 yr old.

Well, he's wrong....he's just simply wrong. I would say more, but I've only just escaped a month's ban and don't want to push my luck...

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

But I was referring to the children of those dreamers. I understand that many of the dreamers are now in their 20s and 30s, so many of them would have kids of their own...born in the USA.

So, not only does this action of Trump's serve to remove nearly a million very worthwhile and productive people from your society, it would also involve the forced removal of legal US citizens, through no fault of their own.

How crazy is that...?

Crazy is now normal.

 

[HannahT]

Is that why in the video with that article listed, they talk about people born in the US being subject to DACA?

I'm not an American, but I don't think they would bring that point up if there wasn't a good reason for it.

Actually, if you look at the top of your article? It States:

The participants of the program were brought to the U.S. illegally as children or came with families who overstayed visas.

They were born in their home country, and brought here with their parents.

 

[Targaryen]

Edit: I misread the previous post

And, does this fact suddenly make them less American now? The by all right could've grown up here, and now they have to go back to a possibly hostile country cause Trump can't get over there more history in the US taking refugess then expelling them.

I guess Eliis Island is just a myth, or what the Statue of Liberty is supposed to represent a fairy tale now.

 

[HannahT]

Edit: I misread the previous post

And, does this fact suddenly make them less American now? The by all right could've grown up here, and now they have to go back to a possibly hostile country cause Trump can't get over there more history in the US taking refugess then expelling them.

I guess Eliis Island is just a myth, or what the Statue of Liberty is supposed to represent a fairy tale now.

Actually, since it is NOT a law they were vulnerable since the Executive Order was made. If it wasn't this President it could have been future ones. Executive Orders are not law - and can be reversed at anytime. Now that it has been undone they can work to make it a law, and these young adults would NOT be vulnerable anymore.

I have no idea WHY people seem to think they were not vulnerable before. I mean even the past administration said this wasn't set in stone. President's can't make law here. Congress does.

I'm old, and for as LONG as I can remember Congress has been claiming they will be working on this. According to them its important, and needs to be done. It's been generations of words, and no action. This forces their hand. We will see if Congress - who are the ones that make the laws, not the President - are all mouth or can show (finally) some action. So far - they are all hot air. All of them, and no side of the politics is immune. DEMS are not less guilty then the GOP. They all guilty as sin. They all claim we MUST deal with this issue, and they have been saying that for generations. Do their words with no laws show its a huge priority? It certainly doesn't to most that pay attention.

It's already been announced that within these 6 months there will be no deportations. WELL, as long as they follow the rules for DACA Status that they have so far that is. Pelosi on the DEMS came out to announce this, and also on the GOP side. Now we wait. We wait to see if Congress can freakin do their job.

I have no true love for this President, but I say good for him! We have seen their (congress) lips move, and emotions pushed....yet no action. Nada. Do something besides claiming you care. Show it. He is forcing them to show some action. Bring the bill that he can sign, and put into law. I don't think that is asking to much personally.

 

[cow451]

So how does a six-year-old get it?

Prodigy

 

[cow451]

Well, he's wrong....he's just simply wrong. I would say more, but I've only just escaped a month's ban and don't want to push my luck...

Did you find that hacksaw I hid in the meatloaf?

 

[SolomonVII]

Edit: I misread the previous post

And, does this fact suddenly make them less American now? The by all right could've grown up here, and now they have to go back to a possibly hostile country cause Trump can't get over there more history in the US taking refugess then expelling them.

I guess Eliis Island is just a myth, or what the Statue of Liberty is supposed to represent a fairy tale now.

They are not American citizens in the first place. They are therefore no more and no less Americans than when the executive order deferred that decision down the road to the next politician in charge.