Trump makes clear he is America First

[Paulos23]

For good or bad, Trump is withdrawing troops from Germany. Not all, but enough to make everyone do a double-take.

Trump orders large withdrawal of U.S. forces from Germany

But NATO has not been briefed about this, so maybe it is just a rumor?

 

[wing2000]

But NATO has not been briefed about this, so maybe it is just a rumor?

...I'm guessing very few people in our own government have been briefed, incluing the Pentagon.
In any case, I think it's more Trump bluster.....

In the event he does stand down our military presence in Germany, I look forward to the cost savings in the defense budget (fat chance).

 

[Desk trauma]

Something about a damaged time keeping device comes to mind.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I can give him credit for this if it turns out to be true. We got enough of a problem dealing with our own homegrown Nazis after all.

 

[hedrick]

Actually this is pretty dangerous. While it would be nice for Europe to bear as much of the cost of their defense as possible, there’s no realistic chance for them to become a global superpower. If it was just the West, I’d say who needs a superpower. But we have Russia and China that would love to dominate the world. China has the resources to do it. You’d think Russia wouldn’t, but Putin is willing to shortchange his people in order to be a superpower. You really do not want to live in a world dominated by China and Russia.

the real surprise for me is that for all his bluster about authority in the US, he seems uninterested in supporting the West. If he’s replaced this year, we can probably recover, it after 4 more years it may be difficult.

 

[MIDutch]

Actually this is pretty dangerous. While it would be nice for Europe to bear as much of the cost of their defense as possible, there’s no realistic chance for them to become a global superpower. If it was just the West, I’d say who needs a superpower. But we have Russia and China that would love to dominate the world. China has the resources to do it. You’d think Russia wouldn’t, but Putin is willing to shortchange his people in order to be a superpower. You really do not want to live in a world dominated by China and Russia.

the real surprise for me is that for all his bluster about authority in the US, he seems uninterested in supporting the West. If he’s replaced this year, we can probably recover, it after 4 more years it may be difficult.

If Trump is elected to another 4 year term, no one outside of the US borders (except Russia) will have any confidence in anything the US does.

 

[Basil the Great]

If Trump is elected to another 4 year term, no one outside of the US borders (except Russia) will have any confidence in anything the US does.

Unless the poll numbers change a lot between now and November, Biden will be the next President and he may change our relations with NATO.

 

[hedrick]

Unless the poll numbers change a lot between now and November, Biden will be the next President and he may change our relations with NATO.

A lot can happen in a couple of months. Remember how sure everyone was that a Hillary would win.

Russians will deluge us with last minute fake news, among other things. Probably the economy will look better, though inequality will be worse than ever. That seems to help Trump, since a lot of the people who are left out see him as a protest against the system, which Biden is not. All the same things that were there in 2016 are there now.

 

[Basil the Great]

A lot can happen in a couple of months. Remember how sure everyone was that a Hillary would win.

True, very true, but something tells me that this polling deficit could be harder to erase than the one in 2016. Time will tell. We also have the virus to contend with, but that is unlikely to impact the outcome, unless we have a very close election.

 

[Tanj]

Actually this is pretty dangerous. While it would be nice for Europe to bear as much of the cost of their defense as possible,

Defense from what?

You’d think Russia wouldn’t, but Putin is willing to shortchange his people in order to be a superpower. You really do not want to live in a world dominated by China and Russia.

China's domination in Europe will be economic, not military, no amount of US bases will change that.

Russa's GDP is behind Canada.

 

[rturner76]

What people love about Trump is he's 100% Law&Order (The old Southern Democrat cry during segregation and civil rights getting passed. They want a fence around the USA and nobody gets in or out. Security Law&Order, America First He might as well say "certain people first in America" He has lot of support for that. People have had a little racist streak their whole lives that's been beat down by the Liberals and the hippy do gooders. Now they can let that little streak get some air and feed it a little and next, somebody got a new outlook and wants to keep this country safe from all undesirables even if I have to get my TP online and we can't get tomatoes, or bananas till fall. No more guacamole

 

[istodolez]

Defense from what?

Regardless of Russia's less than amazing GDP Putin has been actively working to destablize Western Europe for a long while now. So, yeah, "Russia" might be the answer. Maybe Putin doesn't think he can dominate or control Europe like the form USSR may have dreamt of, but he can surely destabilize it leaving it no threat to his ambitions which may still be quite horrific (see his ongoing war in Ukraine, his illegal annexation of Crimea etc.)

It has been clear for some time that Trump does whatever it is that aligns with Putin's larger goals. Whether that is purely by random chance or what I cannot say. But pretty much every single thing Trump stands for (weakening NATO, dismissing our allies, insulting and belittling them etc.) goes right along with what Putin has expressed interest in doing for many years (even before Trump came to power).

China's domination in Europe will be economic, not military, no amount of US bases will change that.

Very good point. China will also dominate us economically as well. We've handed them the keys and we just hope they don't try to drive the car.

 

[Tanj]

Regardless of Russia's less than amazing GDP Putin has been actively working to destablize Western Europe for a long while now.

Yep, those US troops certainly helped with that /sarcasm.

So, yeah, "Russia" might be the answer. Maybe Putin doesn't think he can dominate or control Europe like the form USSR may have dreamt of, but he can surely destabilize it leaving it no threat to his ambitions which may still be quite horrific (see his ongoing war in Ukraine, his illegal annexation of Crimea etc.)

God grief seriously? Any chance you could stop reading right wing propaganda, and spend just a few minutes looking at the history of Crimea? You might like to start with the bit where Sevestapol is the primary Russian military port on the black sea and one of the conditions of joining NATO is no foreign bases. I don't support the invasion but I at least understand why it happened.

Very good point. China will also dominate us economically as well. We've handed them the keys and we just hope they don't try to drive the car.

This discussion is about Europe, and the US troops stationed there.

 

[istodolez]

Yep, those US troops certainly helped with that /sarcasm.

So you think western Europe was a vassal state of the USSR during the Cold War? Interesting take.

God grief seriously? Any chance you could stop reading right wing propaganda, and spend just a few minutes looking at the history of Crimea?

Crimea as of 2014 was still officially part of Ukraine which means it was an illegal annexation of sovereign territory.

And "God grief seriously"? Is that a sentence? Seems like it's missing an "o" and a comma.

This discussion is about Europe, and the US troops stationed there.

I was responding to your point about China. YOUR point.

 

[Tanj]

So you think western Europe was a vassal state of the USSR during the Cold War? Interesting take.

I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. However, since you brought it up, I'll point out the USSR doesn't exist, and neither should US bases in Europe.

And "God grief seriously"? Is that a sentence? Seems like it's missing an "o" and a comma.

Sure is, my bad.

I was responding to your point about China. YOUR point.

My point was that nothing Russia or China is doing is helped, hindered or in anyway affected by US troops in Europe.

 

[istodolez]

I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth.

I suspect you'll survive. I survived you come at me pretty aggressively.

However, since you brought it up, I'll point out the USSR doesn't exist, and neither should US bases in Europe.

"God grief seriously" as you so eloquently put it. USSR doesn't exist but Russia does. And Russia HAS meddled in the affairs of sovereign states since the USSR disbanded. It is currently at war with Ukraine. It has meddled in our elections, it has meddled in European elections. It is NOT our friend and it still has a vast arsenal of rather dangerous weapons.

 

[disciple Clint]

Regardless of Russia's less than amazing GDP Putin has been actively working to destablize Western Europe for a long while now. So, yeah, "Russia" might be the answer. Maybe Putin doesn't think he can dominate or control Europe like the form USSR may have dreamt of, but he can surely destabilize it leaving it no threat to his ambitions which may still be quite horrific (see his ongoing war in Ukraine, his illegal annexation of Crimea etc.)

It has been clear for some time that Trump does whatever it is that aligns with Putin's larger goals. Whether that is purely by random chance or what I cannot say. But pretty much every single thing Trump stands for (weakening NATO, dismissing our allies, insulting and belittling them etc.) goes right along with what Putin has expressed interest in doing for many years (even before Trump came to power).



Very good point. China will also dominate us economically as well. We've handed them the keys and we just hope they don't try to drive the car.

I seem to remember Germany welcoming a business agreement with Russia for oil, so they want to do business with Russia but they want us to defend them with our troops?

 

[istodolez]

I seem to remember Germany welcoming a business agreement with Russia for oil, so they want to do business with Russia but they want us to defend them with our troops?

I suspect it was gas from Russia. Gazprom has been actively serving Europe for a while now. I somehow doubt that Germany was "sticking it to the USA" by purchasing gas from a supplier right next door. We buy things from China and we don't seem to like them that much right now.

 

[TLK Valentine]

For good or bad, Trump is withdrawing troops from Germany. Not all, but enough to make everyone do a double-take.

Trump orders large withdrawal of U.S. forces from Germany

But NATO has not been briefed about this, so maybe it is just a rumor?

Probably more than a rumor... Donald doesn't always give warning when he decides to run away.

 

[FireDragon76]

Actually this is pretty dangerous. While it would be nice for Europe to bear as much of the cost of their defense as possible, there’s no realistic chance for them to become a global superpower. If it was just the West, I’d say who needs a superpower. But we have Russia and China that would love to dominate the world. China has the resources to do it. You’d think Russia wouldn’t, but Putin is willing to shortchange his people in order to be a superpower. You really do not want to live in a world dominated by China and Russia.

the real surprise for me is that for all his bluster about authority in the US, he seems uninterested in supporting the West. If he’s replaced this year, we can probably recover, it after 4 more years it may be difficult.

There's actually some discussion in Germany about beginning a nuclear weapons program, in reaction to the last several years of Trump alienating Europe.