Trump is prepared to betray America's allies

[RocksInMyHead]

Isn't it ironic that during Trump's presidency that there was not any attacks by the Russian military upon any of our European allies? Isn't it ironic that Putin waited until after Biden became president, and after the completely botched withdrawal from Afghanistan under Biden's presidency that Putin invaded Ukraine?

Why would he do anything to threaten US interests when Trump was already playing into his hands? They were best buddies:

At historic summit, Trump refuses to confront Putin

President Donald Trump refused to confront Vladimir Putin over meddling in the US election at their first face to face summit, publicly challenging the findings of the US intelligence community and triggering…

www.france24.com

White House: Trump, Putin Held Second 'Brief Conversation' At G-20

A White House official says that although the talk at the summit in Germany was not previously disclosed, the administration wasn't trying to hide it.

www.wosu.org

 

[Vambram]

While Trump was president, the USA and NATO together kept Putin in check from expanding Russia's influence. That is a fact that you really cannot deny.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

While Trump was president, the USA and NATO together kept Putin in check from expanding Russia's influence. That is a fact that you really cannot deny.

Did they? Invasions aren't the only way in which influence is spread. Trump actively praised Putin and publicly took his word over the analysis of his intelligence agencies.

Under Trump, Russia built up influence in Africa, continued its occupation of Crimea, built up forces in Donbas, and increased energy exports to Europe, among other things.

 

[Nithavela]

While Trump was president, the USA and NATO together kept Putin in check from expanding Russia's influence. That is a fact that you really cannot deny.

During Trumps presidency, the separatists in the Donetzk and Luhansk regions continued their warfare with the support with russian soldiers unabated.

 

[Vambram]

Did they? Invasions aren't the only way in which influence is spread. Trump actively praised Putin and publicly took his word over the analysis of his intelligence agencies.

Under Trump, Russia built up influence in Africa, continued its occupation of Crimea, built up forces in Donbas, and increased energy exports to Europe, among other things.

During that time, what did the European Union and NATO do to attempt to oppose Russia?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

During that time, what did the European Union and NATO do to attempt to oppose Russia?

I dunno, you're the one who said they were effective.

While Trump was president, the USA and NATO together kept Putin in check from expanding Russia's influence. That is a fact that you really cannot deny.

 

[Vambram]

I dunno, you're the one who said they were effective.

But then you attempted to refute what I said. So, therefore, the question comes back to you. What did the European Union and NATO do about the Donbas region and also other expansion of Russian influences?
I believe that the answer is: Nothing

 

[RocksInMyHead]

But then you attempted to refute what I said. So, therefore, the question comes back to you. What did the European Union and NATO do about the Donbas region and also other expansion of Russian influences?

You might want to re-read what I wrote. I questioned your claim that Russian influence was kept in check, not who you claimed did it.

I believe that the answer is: Nothing

So you take back your earlier assertion?

 

[Vambram]

You might want to re-read what I wrote. I questioned your claim that Russian influence was kept in check, not who you claimed did it.

So you take back your earlier assertion?

You appear to claim that Trump did nothing to stop Russian influence because of the assertion that Putin and Trump like each other. On the other hand, why did NATO and the European Union did nothing to stop Putin? Why do liberals appear to want to blame Trump for everything that they don't like?

 

[7thKeeper]

You appear to claim that Trump did nothing to stop Russian influence because of the assertion that Putin and Trump like each other. On the other hand, why did NATO and the European Union did nothing to stop Putin? Why do liberals appear to want to blame Trump for everything that they don't like?

You're still not giving any examples of how this was done and try only to distract it to a different point, which is quite telling. You have no clear examples of what you claimed having happened, having actually happened, do you?

In a more general comment, I do find one thing annoying about this claim/arguement is that the terminology used is in my opinion false and used to create a wrong picture for those who don't follow this more closely.
This all again comes back to the 2% GDP thing (which was agreed to under Obama, not Trump, though he has attempted to claim that before), which isn't funds paid to NATO as a lot of people are trying to make it sound. It's not. It's how's much a NATO member should spend on their own military budget. The previously agreed deadline for getting the budgets up to that is this year, will have to look at how the numbers look to pan out this year, Germany was lagging behind their plan , bit they might be catching up. COVID threw a wrench in a lot of budget plans.

 

[Gene2memE]

Isn't it ironic that during Trump's presidency that there was not any attacks by the Russian military upon any of our European allies?

Because Putin was largely getting what he wanted in Ukraine in 2017 to 2021.

The swap in Ukraine's government AND US policy in 2019 and 2021 respectively changed that.

Isn't it ironic that Putin waited until after Biden became president, and after the completely botched withdrawal from Afghanistan under Biden's presidency that Putin invaded Ukraine?

While the withdrawal was chaotic at the end, ask yourself why the timetable was so compressed.

 

[Whyayeman]

While Trump was president, the USA and NATO together kept Putin in check from expanding Russia's influence. That is a fact that you really cannot deny.

This is broadly true for every president and every Russian and Soviet Union leader since 1942.

Trump has broken the chain of trust which has discouraged aggression from anti-democratic countries. This fracture has ramifications in Europe, of course, because Russian imperialism endangers Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. These countries have cast off the yoke of Russian occupation.

Just as serious for USA is the damage done in SEATO countries. Trump's position risks isolating America from the rest of the world and little good would come of that.

 

[Larniavc]

While Trump was president, the USA and NATO together kept Putin in check from expanding Russia's influence. That is a fact that you really cannot deny.

On 25 November 2018, three Ukrainian boats traveling from Odesa to Mariupol were seized by Russian warships; 24 Ukrainian sailors were detained. A day later on 26 November 2018, the Ukrainian parliament overwhelmingly backed the imposition of martial law along Ukraine's coastal regions and those bordering Russia.

Now, either you didn’t know that in which case this is a clear example of the Kunning-Druger or you did and it was an out and out lie.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

You appear to claim that Trump did nothing to stop Russian influence because of the assertion that Putin and Trump like each other. On the other hand, why did NATO and the European Union did nothing to stop Putin? Why do liberals appear to want to blame Trump for everything that they don't like?

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. You said Trump (and NATO) kept Putin in check. I questioned that assertion, giving examples of how Russia expanded its influence during the Trump presidency. That's it.

 

[Vambram]

It was under the Obama presidency that Putin claimed Ukrainian state of Crimea. The world did nothing to stop it. It was under the Obama Presidency that Putin and Russia started taking over the Donbas region, and Europe still did nothing to prevent that from happening either.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It was under the Obama presidency that Putin claimed Ukrainian state of Crimea. The world did nothing to stop it. It was under the Obama Presidency that Putin and Russia started taking over the Donbas region, and Europe still did nothing to prevent that from happening either.

You're not wrong - while I initially welcomed Obama's attitude of not treating Russia as an adversary ("The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back"), it has been shown to have been a mistake. And yet that still doesn't explain what Trump did to keep Putin in check.

 

[Laodicean60]

Maybe Trump and his supporters have not realised that American governments cannot order other countries to obey them.

Nato is an alliance, not America's empire.

True, we cannot order other countries but if other countries would have listened Ukraine would be in a better position, NATO is an alliance on paper but who is doing most of the work?

 

[Whyayeman]

True, we cannot order other countries but if other countries would have listened Ukraine would be in a better position, NATO is an alliance on paper but who is doing most of the work?

Listened? Who to?

Trump has been consistent in one thing; Putin has always been somebody he could do business with. (In that he is nicely lined up with Kim Jong-un. I don't believe he has any understanding of either men or their stances in the world.)

Let us put the responsibility for Russia's attempted annexation of Ukraine where it belongs - on Putin's weird imperialistic fantasies.

 

[Laodicean60]

Listened? Who to?

Trump has been consistent in one thing; Putin has always been somebody he could do business with. (In that he is nicely lined up with Kim Jong-un. I don't believe he has any understanding of either men or their stances in the world.)

Let us put the responsibility for Russia's attempted annexation of Ukraine where it belongs - on Putin's weird imperialistic fantasies.

I'll spell it out for you. Ukraine would have more armament if NATO had spent 2% when Trump asked for it. When you have more you can give more.

 

[Whyayeman]

I'll spell it out for you. Ukraine would have more armament if NATO had spent 2% when Trump asked for it. When you have more you can give more.

Are you under the impression that Ukraine is part of NATO and bound by its treaty obligations?