Trump admits he lied to Americans about COVID-19

The Barbarian · Sep 11, 2020

Arc F1 said:
I'm not disputing anything other than how it's reported. Change the reporting back to how we always did for other diseases and that number will be way lower.

Nope. That's how it's always been done. If, for example, one contracts influenza and subsequently dies as fluid collects in the lungs, it will be considered an influenza death, even if one had pneumonia caused by the influenza virus.

This is why Dr. Fauci pointed out that all such deaths caused by the coronavirus are COVID-19 deaths, no matter what the specific symptoms might be.

“So the numbers you’ve been hearing — the 180,000-plus deaths — are real deaths from Covid-19. Let [there] not be any confusion about that,” Fauci said.
CDC Did Not 'Admit Only 6%' of Recorded Deaths from COVID-19 - FactCheck.org

You might disagree with Dr. Fauci, who follows medical terminology for deaths caused by infections, but it really doesn't make any difference to the reality.

The Barbarian · Sep 11, 2020

Dr. Fauci carries more weight with me than some failed politician.

Arc F1 said:
Do you know him personally?

A very brief curriculum vitae:
Personal details
Born
Anthony Stephen Fauci
December 24, 1940 (age 79)

Education

Awards

Scientific career
Fields Immunology
Institutions National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

Beats any of his critics, doesn't it? BTW, I've done graduate work in immunology, and I managed an allergy/immunology clinic for 2nd BW in the USAF. He knows what he's talking about. Trump has no idea what he's talking about.

Just that simple.

seeking.IAM · Sep 11, 2020

Did he lie then? Or is he lying now when he says he lied then - well because it may be worth a few votes if he covers prior mistakes? Who knows?

Either way he is a liar. And a bunch of American people don't seem to mind blindly following a liar and making excuses for him. God help us all.

Arc F1 · Sep 12, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Dr. Fauci carries more weight with me than some failed politician.

A very brief curriculum vitae:
Personal details
Born
Anthony Stephen Fauci
December 24, 1940 (age 79)

Education

College of the Holy Cross (BA)

Cornell University (MD)

Awards

Maxwell Finland Award (1989)

Ernst Jung Prize (1995)

Lasker Award (2007)

Medal of Freedom (2008)

Robert Koch Prize (Gold, 2013)

Scientific career
Fields Immunology
Institutions National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

Beats any of his critics, doesn't it? BTW, I've done graduate work in immunology, and I managed an allergy/immunology clinic for 2nd BW in the USAF. He knows what he's talking about. Trump has no idea what he's talking about.

Just that simple.

With your background it's safe to say that you know that the cloth masks and six foot rule is a joke. You know what it takes to be safe from a virus.

Arc F1 · Sep 12, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Nope. That's how it's always been done. If, for example, one contracts influenza and subsequently dies as fluid collects in the lungs, it will be considered an influenza death, even if one had pneumonia caused by the influenza virus.

This is why Dr. Fauci pointed out that all such deaths caused by the coronavirus are COVID-19 deaths, no matter what the specific symptoms might be.

“So the numbers you’ve been hearing — the 180,000-plus deaths — are real deaths from Covid-19. Let [there] not be any confusion about that,” Fauci said.
CDC Did Not 'Admit Only 6%' of Recorded Deaths from COVID-19 - FactCheck.org

You might disagree with Dr. Fauci, who follows medical terminology for deaths caused by infections, but it really doesn't make any difference to the reality.

It makes a difference in public perception not reality. The public is in a panic because of the reporting.

The Barbarian · Sep 12, 2020

Arc F1 said:
It makes a difference in public perception not reality. The public is in a panic because of the reporting.

Not a panic, but confusion. First Trump tells us that it's nothing to worry about, and will disappear "like a miracle."

Now he admits that he knew it was serious, and "downplayed" it in his public statements. Even on this forum, there were people who believed him, and insisted that the pandemic was a "hoax." People died because Trump lied to us. That's the reality.

U.S. Could Have Saved Thousands Of Lives If Lockdown Started Earlier, Study Finds
Researchers at Columbia University devised a model to answer that question. Their analysis shows that if we'd started a week sooner, almost 36,000 fewer people would have died from the virus.
U.S. Could Have Saved Thousands Of Lives If Lockdown Started Earlier, Study Finds

Running for election, Trump asked Americans "what have you got to lose?" by voting for him. Now we know.

Tom 1 · Sep 12, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Do you just ignore all the reporting on how all these deaths were caused by something other than covid? At no other point in history can I remember a time when we used a contributing factor as a primary cause of death. If this virus was reported as we do all other diseases we would be up and running as normal.

It's not so simple, there's a lot of info about it you can look into but recording of deaths include people who were ill but not terminally ill whose lives ended due to Covid when they wouldn't have otherwise, and the collecting of data on deaths over and above what is within usual parameters for a given period of the year. When a lot more people are dying, a lot, that isn't just business as usual. The number of deaths doesn't reach 10s of thousands over expected norms without a reason, even if a smaller number of those deaths are either an indirect result or might conceivably have happened without the additional burden of a viral infection.

The Barbarian · Sep 12, 2020

Arc F1 said:
With your background it's safe to say that you know that the cloth masks and six foot rule is a joke.

Actually, those are based on research and evidence. Would you like me to show you again?

You know what it takes to be safe from a virus.

In operating rooms, for example, it would be great if there was a way to keep all people out of the OR during operations. Since surgeons are required to be there, masks are a useful way to reduce hazards. I fully expect that robotic surgery, which is still very new, will be safer than wearing masks. But yes, they do reduce hazards. Six feet will keep the airstream of humans separated.

In reality, a standing human has an air fountain of microbes around them, moving mostly by convection. Six feet does provide adequate protection from that. Normal speech projects an airstream farther, and masks do greatly restrict such projection.

Meadow and his colleagues tested the ‘uniqueness’ of human microbial clouds by asking three volunteers to sit alone in a sanitised chamber filled with filtered air. They were each asked to put on an identical brand-new outfit so their clothing emissions would be the same, and sit in a disinfected chair and use a sterilised laptop to communicate to the researchers outside. For the first session they had to remain in the chamber for 4 hours and then after a break, returned for another 2 hours.

As each volunteer unwittingly shed their various microbes, they would be filtered out of the chamber and genetically sequenced so the researchers could figure out which types of bacteria each person contained. The most common bacteria they found were Streptococcus from the mouth, Corynebacterium and Propionibacterium from the skin.

The team then set up another experiment to see if they could use these microbe clouds to identify their volunteers. Eight new volunteers were asked to sit in the sterilised chamber for two 90-minute sessions, and their discarded microbes were analysed as they were in the first experiment.

"We expected that we would be able to detect the human microbiome in the air around a person, but we were surprised to find that we could identify most of the occupants just by sampling their microbial cloud," Meadow told CBS News. The results were published in the journal PeerJ.
Humans Can Be Identified by The Unique ‘Microbial Cloud’ That Surrounds Them

Sistrin · Sep 12, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Trump admits he lied to Americans about COVID-19

No he didn't. Seriously, do you even know the definition of the word truth?

The Barbarian · Sep 12, 2020

Sistrin said:
No he didn't.

It's on tape. No point in denying the fact. He openly admitted it to the Woodward.

Seriously, do you even know the definition of the word truth?

Arc F1 · Sep 13, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Actually, those are based on research and evidence. Would you like me to show you again?

In operating rooms, for example, it would be great if there was a way to keep all people out of the OR during operations. Since surgeons are required to be there, masks are a useful way to reduce hazards. I fully expect that robotic surgery, which is still very new, will be safer than wearing masks. But yes, they do reduce hazards. Six feet will keep the airstream of humans separated.

In reality, a standing human has an air fountain of microbes around them, moving mostly by convection. Six feet does provide adequate protection from that. Normal speech projects an airstream farther, and masks do greatly restrict such projection.

Meadow and his colleagues tested the ‘uniqueness’ of human microbial clouds by asking three volunteers to sit alone in a sanitised chamber filled with filtered air. They were each asked to put on an identical brand-new outfit so their clothing emissions would be the same, and sit in a disinfected chair and use a sterilised laptop to communicate to the researchers outside. For the first session they had to remain in the chamber for 4 hours and then after a break, returned for another 2 hours.

As each volunteer unwittingly shed their various microbes, they would be filtered out of the chamber and genetically sequenced so the researchers could figure out which types of bacteria each person contained. The most common bacteria they found were Streptococcus from the mouth, Corynebacterium and Propionibacterium from the skin.

The team then set up another experiment to see if they could use these microbe clouds to identify their volunteers. Eight new volunteers were asked to sit in the sterilised chamber for two 90-minute sessions, and their discarded microbes were analysed as they were in the first experiment.

"We expected that we would be able to detect the human microbiome in the air around a person, but we were surprised to find that we could identify most of the occupants just by sampling their microbial cloud," Meadow told CBS News. The results were published in the journal PeerJ.
Humans Can Be Identified by The Unique ‘Microbial Cloud’ That Surrounds Them

" reduce" and "restrict". Interesting choice of words but to me that says worthless when it comes to viruses that we have no immunity to. On the battlefield that's like just wearing the mask with out the rest of the mopp suit. I can only imagine telling the guys that's good enough, you will be fine. Trust me. I see the masks as nothing more than fooling the masses and I've proved it by being ever so careful and still getting covid a few times already. Pesky little things go right through the mask. A small viral load just takes you longer to get sick.

The Barbarian · Sep 13, 2020

Arc F1 said:
" reduce" and "restrict". Interesting choice of words but to me that says worthless when it comes to viruses that we have no immunity to.

That might be true, if there weren't such a thing as a minimal infectious dose. But there is.

Arc F1 said:
On the battlefield that's like just wearing the mask with out the rest of the mopp suit.

No. The virus needs an entry, and skin will keep out the virus.

Arc F1 said:
Trust me. I see the masks as nothing more than fooling the masses

It comes down to evidence. That's how the real world works. Sorry.

Arc F1 said:
I've proved it by being ever so careful and still getting covid a few times already.

Which is like saying seat belts don't work because you were in several accidents while wearing them, and still got hurt.

Arc F1 said:
A small viral load just takes you longer to get sick.

Or if it's below the minimal infectious dose, you don't get sick at all. One of those. And yes, there is evidence that the severity of a COVID-19 infection is proportional to the amount of virus you took in.
How much of the coronavirus does it take to make you sick? - STAT

Redwingfan9 · Sep 13, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Trump admits downplaying danger of coronavirus, even as he knew it was extremely dangerous
President Donald Trump’s advisers warned him as early as late January that the coronavirus pandemic, then taking root in China, could cost countless lives in America.

Despite this stark warning, revealed by Bob Woodward in his new book Rage and first reported by CNN, Trump downplayed the pandemic—the exact opposite of what any responsible leader should do, experts told The Daily Beast.

As a result, tens of thousands of Americans have died unnecessarily, the same experts said. “This will be case study for decades to come in schools of health for how things can go wrong,” Anthony Alberg, a University of South Carolina epidemiologist, told The Daily Beast.
...
Exactly what Trump understood about SARS-CoV-2, and when, has been the subject of intensive debate since the pathogen first appeared in Wuhan, China, back in December. Some observers assumed Trump truly didn’t understand how dangerous the virus was.

As recently as May, Trump claimed that the World Health Organization engaged in a “cover-up” that deceived his administration about the severity of the pandemic. In fact, Robert O'Brien, Trump’s national security adviser, told the president the coronavirus could be the “biggest national security threat” of Trump’s administration, according to Woodward.
Health Experts: Trump ‘Has Blood on His Hands’

All of us have heard and seen people he misled, arguing that the pandemic was a "hoax" or "just flu", and that efforts to contain it were unnecessary. And they had reason to believe it; their president told them so.

And thousands of people died because he lied to us. This will be his legacy.

This isn't going to change much about this race. The fact is that no one expected the President to race out to give a big panic inducing speech. The fact that he said he knew it was deadly in February is hardly news. China said it was deadly back then, in fact Trump banned travel from China in January which indicates that he believed the virus was deadly back then.

If this is such big news why did Woodward sit on it for six months?

Arc F1 · Sep 13, 2020

The Barbarian said:
That might be true, if there weren't such a thing as a minimal infectious dose. But there is.

No. The virus needs an entry, and skin will keep out the virus.

It comes down to evidence. That's how the real world works. Sorry.

Which is like saying seat belts don't work because you were in several accidents while wearing them, and still got hurt.

Or if it's below the minimal infectious dose, you don't get sick at all. One of those. And yes, there is evidence that the severity of a COVID-19 infection is proportional to the amount of virus you took in.
How much of the coronavirus does it take to make you sick? - STAT

"The minimum infectious dose of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is unknown so far, but researchers suspect it is low."

It's always in the wording.

The Barbarian · Sep 13, 2020

Arc F1 said:
"The minimum infectious dose of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, is unknown so far, but researchers suspect it is low."

It's always in the wording.

But it always exists. And as you just learned, scientists have found that higher doses of the virus do cause more illnesses, and make those illnesses more severe.

So it's stupid not to wear masks, since they reduce the amount of virus when the load in the air is high, or even stop all virus particules when the load in the air is low.

The Barbarian · Sep 13, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
This isn't going to change much about this race. The fact is that no one expected the President to race out to give a big panic inducing speech.

It's a puzzle to me why the extreme right assumes that while the people of other nations didn't panic when told the truth, Americans are not capable of the same maturity.

Why do you even think that?

Arc F1 · Sep 13, 2020

The Barbarian said:
But it always exists. And as you just learned, scientists have found that higher doses of the virus do cause more illnesses, and make those illnesses more severe.

So it's stupid not to wear masks, since they reduce the amount of virus when the load in the air is high, or even stop all virus particules when the load in the air is low.

Do viruses not multiply? I would think a small dose would just take longer for you to get sick seeing how we have zero immunity.

Sistrin · Sep 13, 2020

The Barbarian said:
It's on tape.

Then post a link to that tape. Or a direct transcript of whatever you think was said. Because as it is all you have is a chopped-up narrative provided by CNN championing a few excerpts from a book you haven't even read.

The Barbarian said:
He openly admitted it to the Woodward.

"The" Woodward? Your idolatry is showing again.

The Barbarian said:
Seriously, do you even know the definition of the word truth?

Do you ever have an original thought?

The Barbarian · Sep 13, 2020

Sistrin said:
Then post a link to that tape. Or a direct transcript of whatever you think was said.

The revelation is one of many in journalist Bob Woodward’s forthcoming book, “Rage,” for which Trump granted Woodward a series of interviews.

“You just breathe the air and that’s how it’s passed,” Trump said in a Feb. 7 call with Woodward. “And so that’s a very tricky one. That’s a very delicate one. It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flus.”

“This is deadly stuff,” he repeated.

“I wanted to always play it down,” Trump told Woodward on March 19, according to a copy of the book obtained by CNN. “I still like playing it down, because I don’t want to create a panic.”

But by ignoring reality in public, the president didn’t prevent panic, he provoked it. Many statements Trump made as the virus spread in the U.S. were outright falsehoods:

“We have it very much under control in this country.” “It’s going to be just fine.” “It’s one person coming in from China.” “We’re doing a great job with it.” “It’s going to have a very good ending for us.” “We’re in great shape.” “We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” “Just stay calm. It will go away.” “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.” “It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.”

Responding to the bombshell on Wednesday, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said Trump “has never lied to the American public on COVID” and also claimed he “never downplayed the virus.”
Trump Admits He Lied About COVID-19 Threat In New Woodward Book

Sistrin said:
"The" Woodward? Your idolatry is showing again.

Ah, typo flame. You're meeting everyone's expectations, today. Seriously, do you even know the definition of the word truth?

Sistrin said:
Do you ever have an original thought?

See what being "original" did for you?

Try to focus on the reality, not your creativity.

The Barbarian · Sep 13, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Do viruses not multiply?

Yep. So do animals. If we drop two rabbits into an environment with food and also predators/parasites/etc. Would the likelihoods be different if we dropped 200 of them into the environment?

I would think a small dose would just take longer for you to get sick seeing how we have zero immunity.

Turns out, it doesn't work that way. Hence the minimal infectious dose. That's why higher doses tend to produce more illnesses and more severe illnesses. And if we had zero immunity, everyone exposed would become severely ill. Which clearly isn't the case.

And it's why masks and other precautions are effective.

Trump admits he lied to Americans about COVID-19

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