Trump Administration Bars Migrant from Abortion

[LoAmmi]

You know what it means when you change topics instead of addressing the actual issues...it means you don't have any intelligent arguments left. Stay on point.

No, you're suddenly making accusations like I'm advocating abortion. "I can't change your mind" from what? In the world of issues, abortion isn't even on the top 1000 of my list. I just don't care. I'm not pro-life or pro-choice. Plenty of other people can hash it out.

So, you're making assumptions and the second part of that se

 

[blackribbon]

No, you're suddenly making accusations like I'm advocating abortion. "I can't change your mind" from what? In the world of issues, abortion isn't even on the top 1000 of my list. I just don't care. I'm not pro-life or pro-choice. Plenty of other people can hash it out.

So, you're making assumptions and the second part of that se

Lets see. You are posting on a thread about a minor girl getting an abortion and linking a thread that makes a claim that an abortion is safer than giving birth. I don't think my assumption is really that far-fetched. People who really don't care don't post on threads they don't care about ... well, unless they just want to stir up trouble.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Why would we allow a Mexican child to be killed in our country? The time to prevent a pregnancy is before the conception. After that, the baby is a unique individual person and should have it's rights protected. This is a foreign national who is a minor wanting to have her baby killed and is in the US for that purpose. I don't agree with killing babies or risking the lives of the mothers by putting them in early labor for the purpose of killing the babies. I don't care who is willing to pay for it. If she doesn't want the baby, then someone will. If she is really afraid for her life in relationship to her abusive mother, let her apply for asylum to be hear legally. The funds offered to provide the abortion can be used to take care of her in the meantime.

If she was raped or in dander of going back to her country. Then we might end up paying for her and her baby. If she has this baby she will probably keep. And tax payers will pay for it. And just because someone wants a baby. It doesn't mean this baby or any other baby will bond with adopted parents. People seem to believe a give a child up for adoption. And everything will be fine. When it isn't.

 

[blackribbon]

If she was raped or in dander of going back to her country. Then we might end up paying for her and her baby. If she has this baby she will probably keep. And tax payers will pay for it. And just because someone wants a baby. It doesn't mean this baby or any other baby will bond with adopted parents. People seem to believe a give a child up for adoption. And everything will be fine. When it isn't.

More likely to bond if the baby is adopted as an infant. There is no guarantee that a baby and a birth mother will bond either. That is something we watch for as nurses and encourage if we see it missing.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

More likely to bond if the baby is adopted as an infant. There is no guarantee that a baby and a birth mother will bond either. That is something we watch for as nurses and encourage if we see it missing.

I've read many stories they dont. but abortions are legal, So it's really non of our business to stop or delay this lady. Because we want to prevent her from having an abortion.

 

[Tanj]

If the baby is born on US soil it gets US citizenship, is that correct?

 

[dgiharris]

If the baby is born on US soil it gets US citizenship, is that correct?

yes.

incidentally, I find this argument morally offensive.

Almost 100% of women under the age of 40 coming to the US illegally via coyotes are not only raped, but raped REPEATEDLY. It is so common of an occurrence that a lot of women coming to the US illegally try to get on the pill or some form of birth control because it is so common.

Now, I'm not going to peer into my crystal ball and divine the reason for her abortion, but I will have the common sense to acknowledge that there are a host of morally acceptable reasons for her to want to get an abortion and given the fact that it is NONE of my business anyways AND the fact that it is Legal in this country... Why is this even a debate?

And compelling a teenager to have a baby against her will is barbaric and actually risks her life. Yes, carrying a baby to term does endanger ones life. it's just that with all of our medical technology we have grown so accustomed to the mortality rate for live births being low. But even with all that, having a baby is a traumatic event and "forcing" a human being to do that against their will is something I also have a problem with as someone who believes in freedom and liberty.

It is her body and whatever she decides to do with it and her unborn fetus is between her and god. I have no business dictating my morality on her in a matter that was decided by the Supreme Court.

Or put another way, what is the point of having laws and a Supreme Court if we just ignore them whenever we disagree with them...

 

[GoldenBoy89]

If the baby is born on US soil it gets US citizenship, is that correct?

Yeah and what is really sad is that a lot of the very same people who would rather force this girl to carry the baby to term are the same ones who would turn around and accuse her of having an anchor baby here just to gain citizenship.

 

[JackRT]

Abortion should be legal, it should be safe, it should be available, it should be the woman's informed choice but most importantly it should be rare. Can we work together to make it rare? Sadly, many of the initiatives proven to reduce abortions are also problematic for the anti-abortion crowd. And even more sad is that some of the initiatives taken by this same group have actually produced more abortions and greater danger and distress for the mothers.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Well, since she crossed the border to have an abortion, I think I am safe in assuming the baby isn't an American. And where she conceived isn't a deciding factor in citizenship. Parental citizenship and where the baby is born is. (Funny, that even you are discussing the baby's citizenship while you are also defending her right to kill him/her.) Because the mother is a Mexican citizen, the baby is a Mexican citizen. That is a given.

If that were the case there wouldn't thousands of women who cross over here specifically to have children because they are granted citizenship once they're born here. Something this girl clearly wasn't trying to do if she wanted to end her pregnancy.

My misunderstand about your use of the word "coyote" has to do with your inability to capitalize and use the correct word or clarify your meaning.

Your misunderstanding is your own if you honestly thought I was talking about a woman being impregnated by a dog. I doubt a capital C would have changed much there. And you wouldn't capitalize "coyote" for the same reason you don't capitalize "drug dealer" or "thief". Those are not proper nouns, they are common names for types of criminals.

And maybe under your premise, we should kidnap all the children in Mexico because the country is falling apart. But since that isn't how the world work, she belongs in Mexico because that is her home and where her parents live.

Under my premise, a woman seeking an abortion shouldn't have her citizenship brought into question. I don't know how that even factors into the situation at all.

And yes, letting her give birth is the moral thing because that baby's life matters. That baby should have the right not to be murdered because his/her mother doesn't want him/her.

I'm not going to debate the morality of abortion with you because I can already tell it won't go anywhere productive. A woman should have the right to end an unwanted pregnancy without being guilted out of it by others so long as the law allows it.

 

[Hank77]

Yes, send a pregnant teenager back across the border into the country that is falling apart due to corruption and drug cartels running the show because of our drug laws and addictions. I'm sure things will work out fine for her and her baby. That is clearly the more moral decision to make in this case.

Worse yet she is from Central America.

 

[Hank77]

Because as a nurse working in the labor and delivery department of a top 100 hospital that gets most of the high risk pregnancies in a major metro area means I don't understand this topic? Sounds legitimate. What makes you an expert? Your googling skills?

I can't read the article you are linking...only the abstract and the one comment gives tons of information showing why it isn't a good study. Did you actually read the research or are you basing your expertise on an abstract from a 5 year old abstract?

Then you know that any time labor is induced, no matter when it occurs in pregnancy, it is more painful than naturally occurring labor. Even with full term births sometimes labor must be chemically induced.

 

[Hank77]

Lets see. You are posting on a thread about a minor girl getting an abortion and linking a thread that makes a claim that an abortion is safer than giving birth. I don't think my assumption is really that far-fetched. People who really don't care don't post on threads they don't care about ... well, unless they just want to stir up trouble.

Well let's see. I thought the point of this thread was the legality and implication of interference in a court decision, things like that. Not whether abortion should be legal, how many die or don't die, how painful it is, etc.

To begin with, this girl is from Central America, not Mexico, it not so simple to just send her back across the border to her parents. She did not come here to get an abortion all the way from Central America.

 

[blackribbon]

Then you know that any time labor is induced, no matter when it occurs in pregnancy, it is more painful than naturally occurring labor. Even with full term births sometimes labor must be chemically induced.

Really? You know this from experience? The woman I was giving massive narcotics to was naturally going into labor.'' However, what is your point? That it is okay to put the mother and baby in extreme pain because the baby is inconvenient?

(are you the doctor I have talked to in the past?)

 

[blackribbon]

Well let's see. I thought the point of this thread was the legality and implication of interference in a court decision, things like that. Not whether abortion should be legal, how many die or don't die, how painful it is, etc.

To begin with, this girl is from Central America, not Mexico, it not so simple to just send her back across the border to her parents. She did not come here to get an abortion all the way from Central America.

Is she here legally? Does she have the same rights as a citizen as an illegal minor? And should the foreign citizen inside her be killed just because she doesn't want it? Is it okay to kill foreign citizens because they are in American airspace?

I don't think the point of this thread was ever made. My point isn't whether or not abortion is legal but should we approve an abortion on a minor from another country without her parent's approval and kill a citizen from that country without that country's approval? I am guessing that abortion isn't legal where she is from because the baby is considered a whole person related to the Catholic Church's belief. Am I wrong?

 

[blackribbon]

I've read many stories they dont. but abortions are legal, So it's really non of our business to stop or delay this lady. Because we want to prevent her from having an abortion.

She isn't "a lady", she is legally "a child". Is it legal to preform abortion on a child from a foreign country without the parental approval?

 

[blackribbon]

So we give her the abortion, then what? Send her back then? Put her in jail? Give her all the rights of a citizen? She is here illegally.

 

[Hank77]

Really? You know this from experience? The woman I was giving massive narcotics to was naturally going into labor.

I was not referring to this woman. ?? I was referring to this...
"And whether or not most people realize it, an abortion IS labor and a birth...it is just a birth of a dead child and it is very painful and more dangerous because it is a higher risk for hemorrhaging. Labor is natural and not horrible...it hurts but it is completely natural...I did it twice without pain meds. There is nothing natural about a medical or surgical abortion. And yes, they can be very painful too."

And yes I do know from experience that induced labor birth are more painful than natural labor. Why is that such a surprise to you? My youngest brother was born when I was 16, my mom had to have this labor induced. Since then I have had two other family members who were induced.
The danger of hemorrhaging isn't any greater with an induce labor at the early stages of pregnancy than at the end of a pregnancy.
Besides that I am not illiterate, I can read.

 

[Hank77]

She isn't "a lady", she is legally "a child". Is it legal to preform abortion on a child from a foreign country without the parental approval?

She got the approval from a judge which is legal in this country.

 

[Hank77]

Is she here legally?

Why should that matter. Would you turn away a patient because they were in this country illegally?

Does she have the same rights as a citizen as an illegal minor?

A judge approved it in the place of the absent parents. Which is legal in this country.

And should the foreign citizen inside her be killed just because she doesn't want it?

That is a moral question, not a legal question.

? Is it okay to kill foreign citizens because they are in American airspace?

If a person leaves this country goes to a foreign country and gets a treatment that isn't legal in this country, what business is it of this country? A country does not own it's citizens born or unborn.
I'm pretty sure that you did not agree with England fighting the parents who wanted to bring their terminally ill child to the US for treatment because he wasn't going to get that treatment in England.