So, you alone are perfect. Ok, then.I have yet to hear one Belief Alone Proponent tell me that they keep God's laws and that they support the idea that we must keep them. They are all for the idea that we cannot keep them. They obviously believe they are saved, so this means that they are saved despite their disobedience to God.
That would be fruit we produce through the Spirit. Not to obtain salvation, but to glorify God. Yes, it's obedience. Unless it's done for personal gain and glory. Then, it would be the opposite of obedience. If you have to obtain your own salvation, what did Christ die for? I haven't gotten an answer to this question.
So, you alone are perfect. Ok, then.
Okay, I'm on my phone, which makes it very unwieldy, but I'll try to pick up three verses.3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
Okay, I'm on my phone, which makes it very unwieldy, but I'll try to pick up three verses.
This is about false teachers. By thier false teaching and false works they reveal themselves. Doesn't really have a lot to do with the topic, but I would say that even if they were doing some good work, it has no saving power.
Okay, I'm on my phone, which makes it very unwieldy, but I'll try to pick up three verses.
This is about false teachers. By thier false teaching and false works they reveal themselves. Doesn't really have a lot to do with the topic, but I would say that even if they were doing some good work, it has no saving power.
Okay, I'm on my phone, which makes it very unwieldy, but I'll try to pick up three verses.
This is about false teachers. By thier false teaching and false works they reveal themselves. Doesn't really have a lot to do with the topic, but I would say that even if they were doing some good work, it has no saving power.
Again, about people teaching wrong things about how to conduct your self. Not salvation issues. Obviously, Paul had some specific people in mind when he wrote this. Again, people who were not godly, in this case they were seeking riches instead of God's kingdom. Not sure how this relates? We aren't told whether they are saved or not.4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
Again, about people teaching wrong things about how to conduct your self. Not salvation issues. Obviously, Paul had some specific people in mind when he wrote this. Again, people who were not godly, in this case they were seeking riches instead of God's kingdom. Not sure how this relates? We aren't told whether they are saved or not.
Thanks for the feedback. I am struggling with this indeed.
Both.
But the battle is not over. We still fall short in many ways.
We are not glorified.
Well, I see the problem, then. Because I view my faith as the opposite of "doing something". What we "do" is humble ourselves, that is, cease fighting against God. From there, belief and all the rest will take place. Yes, we make a choice, but it's not a work. And the Calvinists confuse this all to hell. Literally, I believe, sending people to hell because they teach faith is a work, which is total nonsense. It's the opposite of a work. And following that logic, works can never, ever save anyone. Only dependence on God for every single aspect of the spiritual walk saves.Unless you are a Calvinist or Universalist, you think you obtain salvation by doing something, too.
You believe you had to accept Jesus and or believe in Him as your Savior in order to have salvation. In fact, to believe in Jesus is a commandment (1 John 3:23). So you obeyed this command in order to obtain salvation that the Lord did for us on the cross.
It is not the same with all Christians. There are babes in Christ, that actually fall short of salvation, itself, as we see in 1 Corinthians.
When our mind is no longer on sin because it is no longer in our nature, but on becoming like Christ, that is when we step into the process to actually be saved. Study 2 Peter 1
Well yeah. Their fruit (or lack of fruit) reveals thier lack of faith.No. Titus 1:16 not only refers to their sinful deeds, but it refers to how they are reprobate of good works, too.
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).
Well, I see the problem, then. Because I view my faith as the opposite of "doing something". What we "do" is humble ourselves, that is, cease fighting against God. From there, belief and all the rest will take place. Yes, we make a choice, but it's not a work. And the Calvinists confuse this all to hell. Literally, I believe, sending people to hell because they teach faith is a work, which is total nonsense. It's the opposite of a work. And following that logic, works can never, ever save anyone. Only dependence on God for every single aspect of the spiritual walk saves.
Yeah, both Jesus and Paul say similar things about fruit revealing a person's spiritual state. So?Here is another translation:
"They profess to know God; but in their actions they disown Him, and are detestable and disobedient men, and for any good work are utterly useless." (Titus 1:16) (Weymouth New Testament).
Well yeah. Their fruit (or lack of fruit) reveals thier lack of faith.
A good tree bears good fruit, a bad tree bad fruit.
But fruit doesn't bring salvation. Jesus' atonement for our sin is salvations only source.
Yeah, both Jesus and Paul say similar things about fruit revealing a person's spiritual state. So?
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