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True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Leaving the conversation again. You are not listening to what I have been saying and you keep asserting something that I do not believe.

Peace be unto you.
And may God bless you.
And may His love shine upon you, too.


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stuart lawrence

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Leaving the conversation again. You are not listening to what I have been saying and you keep asserting something that I do not believe.

Peace be unto you.
And may God bless you.
And may His love shine upon you, too.


....

May God bless you too Jason, but I only repeat your stated beliefs. As others have noted, you have many times distorted my beliefs and claimed I have stated things I have never stated
 
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stuart lawrence

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If you really want me to reply again soon, please explain the verses I have provided in Post #1857.


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Whether you reply or not does not concern me Jason. Concerning your quote from the beatitudes. A minister said the beatitudes hold to a standard it is impossible for man to achieve. As you have admitted you faqil that standard
Second point. How did Paul view Christ's law?
Carry each others burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Concerning Rom 2:1-3
Paul states when we criticise and condemn others for failing to keep the law when we ourselves also fail to keep it this will not be overlooked!!

Considering Rom ch 1&2 as a whole, what conclusion was Paul drawing his readers to accept?

What shall we conclude then?(what has Paul written to bring him to a conclusion? chs I&2) Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:


‘There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.’b]' data-fn="#fen-NIVUK-28004b">[b]
13 ‘Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practise deceit.’c]' data-fn="#fen-NIVUK-28005c">[c]
‘The poison of vipers is on their lips.’d]' data-fn="#fen-NIVUK-28005d">[d]
14 ‘Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.’e]' data-fn="#fen-NIVUK-28006e">[e]
15 ‘Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.’f]' data-fn="#fen-NIVUK-28009f">[f]
18 ‘There is no fear of God before their eyes. Rom 3:10-19

What do readers need to know from Paul's conclusions?
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 19&20

A message you reject!
 
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stuart lawrence

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If you really want me to reply again soon, please explain the verses I have provided in Post #1857.


....
So there is no misunderstanding as top my previous post to you. The only Christians who can truly live as God wants them to are those who die to a law of righteousness. That means the whole law for your view is not written in scripture.
Those who refuse to die to a law of righteousness have no choice but to believe Christ's death at Calvary was insufficient righteousness to be credited to them. They cannot love God as he wants them to love him and the higher points of the law will be void from their life
Pauls conclusion was-I repeat:
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. 19&20

A message you reject

Reject the above message and you will never follow Rom2:6&7, it is not possible
 
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ToBeLoved

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The Bible says, he that commits sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8). The Bible says he that does evil hates the light unless their deeds should be reproved (i.e. "reproved": Meaning, if they repent of their evil deeds). (John 3:20).


...
Can i ask what version of the Bible do you get your scripture from?
 
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Can i ask what version of the Bible do you get your scripture from?

I primarily use the King James (KJV) or the King James 2000 (KJ2).
But there are times, I also use many other translations, too (Like the NLT, GNT, etc.).

When I quote the Bible, it is from the KJV or the KJ2. If it is another translation I quote, I provide the translation abbreviation after the verse.

Anyways, I also look at the original languages sometimes (If the need calls for it).

I like to compare Scripture with Scripture to confirm a truth, too.

The websites I use for Bible reading are: Biblehub and Biblegateway.

Biblehub.
http://biblehub.com/tools.htm
(Lot of great tools here and it is where I read the KJ2).

Biblegateway.
https://www.biblegateway.com
(I use this to read the KJV and to compare Modern Translations)
(Simply do a search on one verse and then click on the link below to see other versions).

The website I use for looking at the original languages and searches on a keyword is BlueLetterBible. (To access the original languages: Simply click on the feature that says "Strong's" at top after doing a search on a verse or keyword).
https://www.blueletterbible.org

The website I use to find cross references is: OpenBible.
(They offer a ton of great related cross references here).
http://www.openbible.info/labs/cross-references/




...
 
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Meowzltov

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No one was born again under the old covenant.
Irrelevant. The old covenant was never designed to get a person into heaven. The deal in the old covenant was that Jews could live in the promised land. The point is that the old covenant involved obedience, therefore it was not specific to the new covenant, not novel, and therefore not really what you would call core.
 
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Meowzltov

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In Jeremiah 31, Jeremiah prophecies:

‘The days are coming(they were not their yet),’ declares the Lord,
‘when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband tod]'>[d] them,’e]'>[e]
declares the Lord.
33 ‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts
Jeremiah 31:31-33
This prophecy in Jeremiah 31 is not about the New Covenant in the NT, but is about the New Covenant we will have after the Resurrection. We know this because of verse 34, where no one needs to be taught about God. Today that is not true, many need to be taught about God.
"Know Jehovah; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them."
 
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stuart lawrence

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This prophecy in Jeremiah 31 is not about the New Covenant in the NT, but is about the New Covenant we will have after the Resurrection. We know this because of verse 34, where no one needs to be taught about God. Today that is not true, many need to be taught about God.
"Know Jehovah; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them."
Verse 34 refers specifically to Israel when they all accept Christ as their saviour, at a time in the future
 
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stuart lawrence

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Irrelevant. The old covenant was never designed to get a person into heaven. The deal in the old covenant was that Jews could live in the promised land. The point is that the old covenant involved obedience, therefore it was not specific to the new covenant, not novel, and therefore not really what you would call core.
If you read the first fourteen verses of Hebrew 10 it concerns Christ dying for sins and animal sacrifices no longer being necessary. Straight after this in verse 15 it states:
The holy spirit also testifies to us about THIS(what the writer has been speaking of)
Then verse16&17 is as I previously quoted to you. It is all linked. There is only two covenants, the old and the new
 
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Irrelevant. The old covenant was never designed to get a person into heaven. The deal in the old covenant was that Jews could live in the promised land. The point is that the old covenant involved obedience, therefore it was not specific to the new covenant, not novel, and therefore not really what you would call core.
Although the final fruition of God's plan of salvation was not realized in the Old Covenant, there were saints in the Old Covenant who were justified by faith, regenerated spiritually, had God living within them and were saved by grace thru the Messiah. It is just that the OT saint could not be made as perfect as the NT saint because the New Covenant is based exclusively on loving God and loving others (Whereas the OT saint was sent out to war against the enemies of Israel, etc.). In addition, the OT saint also had to obey certain ordinances or ceremonial laws (like circumcision and the Sabbaths) as a part of their faith in God, too. However, these ordinances are nailed to the cross for the believer under the New Covenant today, though; This applies both to the believing Jew and the Gentile.


...
 
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Meowzltov

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All scripture is inspired by God and profitable...

Whats your point?

Until has come, and the law of Moses has been abolished in His flesh.

The law and prophets were until John, since then the kingdom of God is preached.
My point is that, as we see by the Bereans, that the Law and the Prophets were still being studied after John the Baptist.
 
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Meowzltov

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It is true that if people loved God in the OT they were accepted by faith. However, having the law placed within you is specific to the new covenant.
All it means is that you assimilate it into your conscience. I don't believe that no one did this until the New Covenant. It has more to do with learning the Law as a child, so that it becomes more of a reflex it's so ingrained.
 
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Meowzltov

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If you are talking about how Christ works in the believer because He lives in them, then the answer would also be a... "yes." For faith without works (ie. God directed works) is a dead kind of faith (James 2:17-19).
I'm duly impressed! That's quite advanced thinking for a protestant. Now we just have to work on your idea of OSAS. :)
 
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stuart lawrence

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All it means is that you assimilate it into your conscience. I don't believe that no one did this until the New Covenant. It has more to do with learning the Law as a child, so that it becomes more of a reflex it's so ingrained.
If the law I on your heart you in your heart want to obey it. God told Moses the Israelites were a stiff necked heathen people. Most of the time they did not want to obey. The law was not placed in their hearts under the old covenant. Their history was most of the tine rebellion, getting into trouble, crying out to God for help, he saved them then it was back to rebelling. All nations and people would naturally speaking be as they were under the old covenant. In Ezekiel 36:26&27 we see God was going to do something very different from what happened under the old covenant. He would remove the heart of stone and replace them with hearts of flesh. He would put his spirit I them and cause them to obey his laws. A mirror image of Jeremiah 31:33&34, heb10:16&17
 
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Meowzltov

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Verse 34 refers specifically to Israel when they all accept Christ as their saviour, at a time in the future
You can't have one part of the prophecy be after the resurrection and another part be about the NT.
 
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Meowzltov

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If you read the first fourteen verses of Hebrew 10 it concerns Christ dying for sins and animal sacrifices no longer being necessary. Straight after this in verse 15 it states:
The holy spirit also testifies to us about THIS(what the writer has been speaking of)
Then verse16&17 is as I previously quoted to you. It is all linked. There is only two covenants, the old and the new
No offense, but I don't see what this has to do with my point.
 
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Meowzltov

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Although the final fruition of God's plan of salvation was not realized in the Old Covenant, there were saints in the Old Covenant who were justified by faith, regenerated spiritually, had God living within them and were saved by grace thru the Messiah. It is just that the OT saint could not be made as perfect as the NT saint because the New Covenant is based exclusively on loving God and loving others (Whereas the OT saint was sent out to war against the enemies of Israel, etc.). In addition, the OT saint also had to obey certain ordinances or ceremonial laws (like circumcision and the Sabbaths) as a part of their faith in God, too. However, these ordinances are nailed to the cross for the believer under the New Covenant today, though; This applies both to the believing Jew and the Gentile.
I personally think that those under the Old Covenant were FULLY made perfect just as those under the New Covenant. This is because Christ's sacrifice worked backwards in time as well as forwards.

The Old Covenant never promised Salvation. The deal God made with the Children of Israel was that they could live in the promised land. You'll notice that heaven is never mentioned in the Torah.

The New Covenant does not give us a license to disobey. Christ said the Law would not pass away until heaven and earth passed away. Last time I checked outside my front door, the earth was still there. Jews must still obey Mosaic law, and Gentiles obey Natural law as described in the NT.
 
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Meowzltov

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Most of the time they did not want to obey. The law was not placed in their hearts under the old covenant.
Wanting to disobey, and knowing something is a sin are two different things. I know lying is a sin, but I still want to lie. IOW the law is written on my heart, but God still has a work to do in me.
 
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