True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

[stuart lawrence]

I have already explained these verses for you. Do you have some new point to make with them? Or is it the same one? If it is the same one, I already made my case against what you said on them.


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You have now accepted the only law Paul could not faultlessly keep was the moral law. You believe the moral law was not being spoken of in gal3:10&11. Why therefore would Paul be cursed and unable to be justified by laws he could faultlessly obey

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Si
SiN existed before the law was given, but not taken into account(rom5:13)

The difference between us is how to obey not whether we should obey

Just so that there is no confusion here. Sin still condemned man. Many wicked men perished in the global flood because of their evil deeds and they were not clearly saved.

Romans 5:14 CEB says, - "But death ruled from Adam until Moses, even over those who didn’t sin in the same way Adam did—Adam was a type of the one who was coming."

The Law was merely added because of man's transgressions (Galatians 3:19). In other words, things were getting bad, so God added a written Law so as to hold them even more accountable.

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[stuart lawrence]

Just so that there is no confusion here. Sin still condemned man. Many wicked men perished in the global flood because of their evil deeds and they were not clearly saved.

Romans 5:14 CEB says, - "But death ruled from Adam until Moses, even over those who didn’t sin in the same way Adam did—Adam was a type of the one who was coming."

The Law was merely added because of man's transgressions (Galatians 3:19). In other words, things were getting bad, so God added a written Law so as to hold them even more accountable.

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Your on a computer I quoted verse 13 can you put that up. I agree with you mans conduct condemned him

 

[stuart lawrence]

You may want to look at 1peter3:18&19. When Christ died at Calvary he went and preached to the spirits of those who disobeyed in noahs day

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have now accepted the only law Paul could not faultlessly keep was the moral law. You believe the moral law was not being spoken of in gal3:10&11. Why therefore would Paul be cursed and unable to be justified by laws he could faultlessly obey

I have already explained this to you before.

It's not that I have now all of a sudden believed it. "Now" was in reference to how we have come to an understanding on that passage. I believed that the Pharisee Law or Ceremonial Law is what Paul is referring to in Philippians 3:6. But that is not the context of Galatians 3:10-11. In the book of Romans and Galatians: Paul is addressing the heresy of trying to obey the Law of Moses alone so as to be saved apart from salvation in Jesus Christ. This was the core problem of the Pharisee's false beliefs. Paul brought this up so as to bring down the false idea of certain church members in thinking that they needed to be circumcised in order to be saved. So when we read this passage, that is the context.

For one, the Law of Moses as a whole is no longer binding as a package deal. Yes, certain moral laws have been carried over, but we look to the New Testament to follow what Jesus said and what His apostles commanded of us. Jesus is our Savior and we trust in Him and what He has done to clear us of our past record of sin. From that point on, Jesus lives in us and he does the "good work" in our lives. So there is no boasting in any law keeping of my own. There is also no going back to any laws within the Old Law that are no longer binding, either. For we are not under the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). But we are under Grace. Grace that allows a believer to overcome sin by Christ's power and not so as to continue within it.


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[stuart lawrence]

I have already explained this to you before.

First, it's not that I have now all of a sudden believed it. "Now" was in reference to how we have come to an understanding on that passage. I believed that the Pharisee Law or Ceremonial Law is what Paul is referring to in Philippians 3:6. But that is not the context of Galatians 3:10-11. In the book of Romans and Galatians: Paul is addressing the heresy of trying to obey the Law of Moses alone so as to be saved apart from salvation in Jesus Christ. So when we read this passage, that is the context. For one, the Law of Moses as a whole is no longer binding as a package. Yes, certain moral laws have been carried over, but we look to the New Testament to follow what Jesus said and what His apostles commanded of us. Jesus is our Savior and we trust in Him and what He has done to clear us of our past record of sin. From that point on, Jesus lives in us and he does the "good work" in our lives. So there is no boasting in any law keeping of my own. There is also no going back to any laws within the Old Law that are no longer binding, either. For we are not under the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses).


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I suggest you contemplate on those two verses hard

 

[stuart lawrence]

What then wad the purpose of the law? It wad added because of transgression until the seed to whom the promise referred had come gal3:19

 

[stuart lawrence]

I love the way the living bible puts it. The law was given to keep people in protective custody until the coming of christ

 

[stuart lawrence]

And Paul is not in romans and Galatians only referring to the law of Moses that is not possible as the Israelite said earlier, it was one whole law

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No. Paul was not referring to all forms of law in Romans and Galatians. No verse actually says that. Paul says that what he has written should be regarded as the Lord's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). Paul also says if any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). The New Testament mentions that there is a Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), a Royal Law (James 2:8), the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). So I really do not see God's Word in opposition to Law in the New Testament at all. Jesus says if you love me, you will keep my commandments (John 14:15). Revelation towards the end says,

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).


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[Bible Highlighter]

I suggest you contemplate on those two verses hard

I am comfortable in what they both say. As I am sure you are.


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[stuart lawrence]

No. Paul was not referring to all forms of law in Romans and Galatians. No verse actually says that. Paul says that what he has written should be regarded as the Lord's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). Paul also says if any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). The New Testament mentions that there is a Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), a Royal Law (James 2:8), the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). So I really do not see God's Word in opposition to Law in the New Testament at all. Jesus says if you love me, you will keep my commandments (John 14:15). Revelation towards the end says,

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).


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But this what you are not understanding. You think if you remove a law of righteousness from the moral law people are free to break that law. If that were the case it would be pointless to transfer that law onto the heart and mind of the convert, nothing had been achieved. Paul is writing to people committed to God, to the church, they don't want a licence to sin, they need victory over sin. This point is what stops most accepting the true message.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Your righteousness is Jesus or the law. You have to stand on one or the other, you cannot stand on both

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The difference between Galatians 3:10-11 and Philippians 3:6 is subtle although they are similar in the fact that they are attacking man made beliefs. In Philppians 3:6, Paul is saying he was perfect in the Pharisee's traditions according to their laws. This would include in part some of God's Old Testament laws and their own man made traditions. Galatians 3:10-11 is speaking of the Law as a package deal in how it is no longer in effect anymore because it was a part of the Old Covenant. These were laws of God that were in effect at one time as a whole or package deal until Christ died upon the cross and instituted the New Covenant with New Commands for us to follow after we received his free gift of grace. Yes, the Pharisees decided to come up with the man made idea of saying that man is justified by a Covenant Law that is no longer binding without a Savior, but Paul's point was the focus on how we are under grace (New Covenant) and not the Old Law (Old Covenant). Philippians 3:6 dealt more exclusively with the traditions of the Pharisees; Which was a problem. For Matthew 15:1-2 says,

"Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus saying, 'Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread'".

What did Jesus do?

Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees's Traditions:

"He answered and said to them, 'Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and he who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, 'Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God'--then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophecy about you, saying: 'There people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines of God the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:3-9).


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[stuart lawrence]

I can onl

The difference between Galatians 3:10-11 and Philippians 3:6 is subtle although they are similar in the fact that they both are based on man made beliefs. In Philppians 3:6, Paul is saying he was perfect in the Pharisee's traditions according to their laws. This would include in part some of God's Old Testament laws and their own man made traditions. Galatians 3:10-11 is speaking of the Law as a package deal in how it is no longer in effect anymore because it was a part of the Old Covenant. These were laws of God that were in effect at one time as a whole or package deal until Christ died upon the cross and instituted the New Covenant with New Commands for us to follow after we received his free gift of grace. Yes, the Pharisees decided to come up with the man made idea of saying that man is justified by a Covenant Law that is no longer binding without a Savior, but that is not the same thing as keeping their man made traditions that was an addition to God's Laws in Philippians 3:6. For Matthew 15:1-2 says,

"Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus saying, 'Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread'".

What did Jesus do?

Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees's Traditions:

"He answered and said to them, 'Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? For God commanded saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and he who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, 'Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God'--then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophecy about you, saying: 'There people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines of God the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:3-9).


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Don't resist the true covenant. I can categorically assure you it will give you far greater peace, far greater love for God if you accept it. For the true christian removing a righteousness of obedience to the moral law will never be seen as a licence to sin. That law is in their most inward parts, they want to obey it and their conscience is seered when they don't. They have been born again of the spirit . Jesus will only be your saviour from sin if you have been born again, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart want to obey his father

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I can onl
Don't resist the true covenant. I cab categorically assure you it will give you fa red greater peace, far greater love for God if you accept it. For the true christian removing a righteousness of obedience to the moral law will never be seen as a licence to sin. That law us in their most inward parts, they want to obey it and gave their conscience seered when they don't. They have been born again of the spirit . Jesus will only be your saviour from sin if you have been born again, for he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they in their heart www ant to obey his father

Let's try and stick to Scripture shall we?


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[stuart lawrence]

Absolutel

Let's try and stick to Scripture shall we?


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Absolutely. What is the core terms of the new covenant?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why did the law get transferred onto you heart?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

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[stuart lawrence]

For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace
What then, shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves you are slaves to the one whom you obey rom6:14-16

Who have you offered yourself to Jason? Jesus? Then you are not under law but under grace for you have chosen your master