True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

Jason0047 said:

There is no act. I can only stand and do what is right by the power of Jesus Christ. For a believer can do nothing without Him.

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Jason,

Why is your entire faith based on being good enough, when the only Perfect One is your Advocate? He died to be this for you, so you can be your best in Christ, not perfection.

Jason0047 said:

There are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. I do not commit sins daily that lead unto death. That does not mean I have not faltered on occasion. But I believe the Bible when it says we can overcome sin for good. So this would require faith on your part. Not faith in ourselves but in God.


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Can you list the ones that lead to spiritual death?

Since Jesus gave us spiritual life in Him, spiritual death is without God, so I'd be interested in what can take Him away from you, because Jesus said 'no power on heaven or earth can remove them from My right hand because the Father has given them to me'.

So what power do you have to determine spiritual death? What sin can you commit that can remove you from His right hand because He tells us that we have been bought with a price. His death.

Jason0047 said:

There are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. I do not commit sins daily that lead unto death. That does not mean I have not faltered on occasion. But I believe the Bible when it says we can overcome sin for good. So this would require faith on your part. Not faith in ourselves but in God.


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Were you raised a catholic? Only you seem to have much of Catholicism in you. A woman once said. The two denominations that find it hardest to accept the grace of the bible are Catholics and pentecostals. I accept what she said. And yet, doctrinally they are the two denominations that are supposed to be the furthest apart. Strange isn't it!

M

ToBeLoved said:

Can you list the ones that lead to spiritual death?

Since Jesus gave us spiritual life in Him, spiritual death is without God, so I'd be interested in what can take Him away from you, because Jesus said 'no power on heaven or earth can remove them from My right hand because the Father has given them to me'.

So what power do you have to determine spiritual death? What sin can you commit that can remove you from His right hand because He tells us that we have been bought with a price. His death.

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Many with jasons views believe if they do not get drunk, use foul language, have we extra marital affairs or smoke they will attain heaven on that basis, as long as they go to church each week, read the bible and tithe their money.
What they fail to realise is. The Pharisees of Jesus day would have passed all those tests with flying colours but that didn't mean they knew God

stuart lawrence said:

I really feel you concerning what your cousin and aunt told you. But for people to tell you you cannot be saved because you were baptised in the name of father, son and holy spirit rather than Jesus alone shows how little they understand of the true message. Jesus himself said baptise people in the name of father, son and holy spirit
As for the belief they have you must speak in tongues to be saved, that is awful, itvtruly is. In Acts ch 8 Philip went to Samaria. People accepted the Gospel and got saved, they were called believers. But afterwards peter and john went to Samaria laid hands on them then they spoke in tongues. Two different events. Yet the second event was not needed to bring salvation to them.
I don't know if you read what I previously wrote. But a well known Baptist minister in the UK said 85% of charadmatics/evangelicals do not understand the justification/sanctification process. I was brought up in such churches and sadly i would agree with the man. Oneness Pentecostalism would bear such a statistic out, as would this thread!

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The really sad part was that I doubted my own salvation for a few years.

So I studied the Word and studied to make sure I was saved.

That's why it hurt so much, because it made me doubt who I was in Christ. But now I'm so much stronger for it.

stuart lawrence said:

M
Many with jasons views believe if they do not get drunk, use foul language, have we extra marital affairs or smoke they will attain heaven on that basis, as long as they go to church each week, read the bible and tithe their money.
What they fail to realise is. The Pharisees of Jesus day would have passed all those tests with flying colours but that didn't mean they knew God

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You are so right, because the Pharisee's had God right in front of them and Jesus dealt with them the hardest. I'm trying to think of the verses.

The really sad part was that I doubted my own salvation for a few years. I wondered if I was one of His or not. It shook me pretty bad and I felt like I would never know for sure.

So I studied the Word and studied to make sure I was saved.

That's why it hurt so much, because it made me doubt who I was in Christ. But now I'm so much stronger for it.

ToBeLoved said:

The really sad part was that I doubted my own salvation for a few years.

So I studied the Word and studied to make sure I was saved.

That's why it hurt so much, because it made me doubt who I was in Christ. But now I'm so much stronger for it.

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I don't know if you read my post to Jason of ny upbringing. But I walked away for a few years crushed, believing I could not be good enough for God.
But you know, all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purposerom8:28 as you are now stronger for what you went through, my despair brought me to accept grace. Hallelujah!

M

ToBeLoved said:

You are so right, because the Pharisee's had God right in front of them and Jesus dealt with them the hardest. I'm trying to think of the verses.

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Matthew 23 is a good chapter to read of Jesus opinions of the Pharisees. They cleaned the outside of the cup and insisted the people obey the whole law, yet they themselves on the inside were full of wickedness hypocrisy and everything unclean
So they excused themselves from failing to obey the law only they and God need know if they broke while demanding almost sinless perfection from everyone else. And they crushed the people with their demands

You are so right, because the Pharisee's had God right in front of them and Jesus dealt with them the hardest. I'm trying to think of the verses.

UPDATE:

This is one of them.

Matthew 23:1-39
1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4 “They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5 “But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6 “They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. 8 “But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 “Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11 “But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 [“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, that is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is obligated.’ 17 “You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold? 18 “And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, that is nothing, but whoever swears by the offering on it, he is obligated.’ 19 “You blind men, which is more important, the offering, or the altar that sanctifies the offering? 20 “Therefore, whoever swears by the altar, swears both by the altar and by everything on it. 21 “And whoever swears by the temple, swears both by the temple and by Him who dwells within it. 22 “And whoever swears by heaven, swears both by the throne of God and by Him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. 24 “You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26 “You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 “So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had been living in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 “So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 “Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33 “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 “Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 “For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’”



Mark 12:38-40
38 In His teaching He was saying: “Beware of the scribes who like to walk around in long robes, and like respectful greetings in the market places, 39 and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, 40 who devour widows’ houses, and for appearance’s sake offer long prayers; these will receive greater condemnation.”

stuart lawrence said:

M
Matthew 23 is a good chapter to read of Jesus opinions of the Pharisees. They cleaned the outside of the cup and insisted the people obey the whole law, yet they themselves on the inside were full of wickedness hypocrisy and everything unclean
So they excused themselves from failing to obey the law only they and God need know if they broke while demanding almost sinless perfection from everyone else. And they crushed the people with their demands

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lol i just found and posted that same chapter

Jason0047 said:

Again, please do not accuse me falsely of something I do not believe. For one, the Pharisees did not keep God's moral law on a daily basis. I do. Second, I do not believe any of the ceremonial laws under the Old are in effect anymore and nor do I believe in the laws of the Pharisees. False accusations only weaken your argument. Oh and before you say that I accused you of believing of something without apologizing, please keep in mind you have not been forth coming with me on what those accusations are when I asked.



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You do know jesus stated it was on the INSIDE the Pharisees did not keep the moral law don't you? Not the outside, don't neglect the difference.
I was very forthcoming yesterday on the clarification you sought

I stated facts. It is as clear as day you have distorted my views on many occasions.

Jason0047 said:

Why was Jesus angry with the Pharisees? Was it because they did not have a faith that you are describing by telling them and others not to worry about God’s Laws salvation wise and just focus more on Him in being the Savior? I am sorry. I just do not see that teaching at all in Scripture.




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Jesus wad angry with the Pharisees because they did not practise what they preached. They demanded of the people what they did not attain to in their own lives and crushed them in the process

Jason0047 said:

Certain questions require more time than I have. But I have not replied as of late because I have honestly been busy. So please do accuse me of something that is not true again.

See, Jesus said that others will speak evil of us falsely. So if you are truly on God's side, you would stop accusing me of false and evil things.



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Well you have easily had time since you have been on this thread today to give your personal thoughts as to what it means to be born again and have the law placed within you. But it seems you find it hard to do that, preferring instead at some tine in the future to post verses of scripture about it. Have you no personal thoughts at all concerning these things?